No I was talking about affirmative action more generally as some of my examples indicated since your comment is applicable for affirmative action in general.
Or perhaps we just shouldn’t do it.
Should we save spots for Scotch-Irish Americans at Harvard or Yale?
Or perhaps we should just switch to colour blind policies while using universal social welfare programs to bring everybody up.
So you advocate institutional bigotry or is this satire? I’m hoping satire.
What if the underrepresented groups had the interest and desire but not the talent?
As a male who was has only reached 5’6" tall, I feel that I have been historically oppressed in both college and professional athletics.
I’d try to make sure that there’s some sort of JV team or some other opportunities to still play. It’s not the same as being on the varsity team, but they’d still have the chance to play and participate and get exercise. High school sports should be about exercise and experience first and winning second, considering most high school athletes will not go on to be on college teams, and most college athletes will not go on to play on professional teams.
I believe that’s an ideal we should strive for. But we are not equal yet, and those who are less equal are typically blacker. It is ok to help them. It is not racism if we help out people who are worst off. Its a denial of reality to claim those are not minorities. MLK and I have the same goal, but he talked about a distant future where people are equal. To get there, we must physically make people equal in jobs, sports, etc.
I am not opposed to also help people based on income level.
Ignoring a problem won’t make it go away. I see your stance as akin to the post Reconstruction era. “lavery’s over! Blacks are free! We’re all equal now!” But institutionally, there are still barriers to succeeding, things that blacks and minorities feel but whites generally do not, at least not on the basis of their skin color. This kind of blindness to the problems of the world doesn’t make things go away. A hundred years had to pass before we did anything major to actually physically give blacks the rights they were promised with freedom and citizenship. And even then, we have problems now, with black areas disproportionately being poor, blacks targeted by police, to weird stuff like doctors thinking black people feel less pain.
Look, I get that its crazy nowadays to think black people are very oppressed, or even a little oppressed. One is president! But does that mean blacks are just more prone to being criminals, seeing as how there’s a disproportionate number of them in jail? Or they are severely underrepresented in positions of leadership and power elsewhere? Other than severity, what difference is there in saying in 2015 that blacks have every opportunity and they should stop complaining vs. saying that in 1865? All those Jim Crow laws were legal as far as the authorities were concerned.
Nah, just do it by skin color, its easier and prevents a good program of equality from being abused by everybody with 1/64 ethnicity in some obscure group.
I’m fine with universal social welfare. But I’d give blacks a few extra points. So long as we’re helping everyone, its ok to help some groups a little more
Its not bigotry if we’re helping people who have been oppressed. Or do you think giving money to the homeless and a millionaire is the same thing?
Parents don’t want that. They want competitive teams and if schools don’t provide it they go to private leagues. Colleges have intramural and rec leagues where participation is open but that is tangential to the main question. Do you support imposing raced based quotas if there is not enough proportional representation in competitive sport?
Poor and rich are in the set of wealth categories. White, black, other are in the set of racial categories . These elements are not identical. But since I didn’t just fall out of the pickle boat I’m getting the feeling your being just a tiny bit absurd. If serious I’m investing in tanning beds and dermatology clinics if your idea catches on.
I’d like to help the poor, sure. But how do you ensure that people in power such as CEOs or even lower level managers have enough qualified minorities? Is it simply an accident that there aren’t a lot of women and minorities in power? Or are they truly not smart enough to reach such heights? Once you realize how pervasive institutionalized bias prevents people from moving up, come up with a solution to how we can change that.
Or, are you of the mind that it is perfectly ok to have 4 black CEOs and only 24 women CEOs in all the Fortune 500 companies? That its not a problem?
I have, albeit not widely. I’ve gone to my car after a college football game to find a flyer stuffed under my windshield (and the windshield of everyone else who parked in that lot), the flyer denounced the fact that “all” major running backs in college are black, and basically pointed to reverse racism as the reason for this. It had the look and feel of Klan literature, but I can’t say I’ve never heard the argument made that we need more whites in some aspects of sport.
That anecdote isn’t an isolated incident, I’ve seen/heard the sentiment expressed a few times elsewhere. I would definitely not say it’s a “mainstream” or even “prominent minority” viewpoint, it’s definitely fringe territory stuff.
It depends on what you consider the purpose of sports to be - I view it as a form of entertainment the same way I view movies or ballet. As such, I think society has a compelling interest in having all its members see a diverse representation of themselves, the same way it does in employment and the armed forces and Hollywood.
This is something we’re coming to grips with in South Africa right now, with our national Rugby and Cricket teams in no way reflecting the country’s demographics - and this being an entirely, provably, cultural/historic phenomenon. But the nation actually has a compelling interest in being represented by all its peoples, so I support development efforts to change the demographics, but not an outright quota system (because while I’m for reflecting the nation, I still don’t want to lose to England…)
RSA is the first thing I thought off when I saw this topic. Is that not complicated there though.
In that following of sports varied amongst communities with whites playing rugby blacks soccer and all communities cricket but separately?
Hey we just beat England too.
I don’t care about the proportion of minorities or women. I care about making sure the best get the job and if we want to level the playing field I’d much rather help the poor of any color or arbitrary gender than some random minority or woman.
I want to see the best compete in competitive leagues. If I want to see any random person play I’ll go to the park with the rest of the hordes and watch recreational softball. Oh, no, I won’t. I’ll be watching competitive sports like the NBA or NFL or SEC football and I won’t care if every starting corner back in the NFL is black or whatever.
I don’t know one person who has wanted to see a quota hire in actually playing the sport. Maybe a quota hire for a coach or something. Knowing that you aren’t seeing the best play in a competitive sport is distasteful. Plus does the participant of a sport that is a quota hire somehow make the rest of his “group” feel somehow special? Let’s cheer for the guy that was forced onto the team…
Now, I do agree with making sure everybody has some opportunity to develop whatever talents in whatever field that may be. And if that’s more assistance to lower income areas I don’t have as big of a problem with that.
Personally I don’t think it is a problem that needs a direct solution by way of quotas or AA. Merit is everything.
I think this doesn’t have to be the only or overriding interest in representative teams such as national or regional teams.
For many countries sure. Send diversity as a form of symbolism. And that may be important for that society at that time. In the USA? It’s all about the gold or the total medal count! Whichever statistic looks better on the TV!
And lets go back to the Olympics in Munich, regardless of proportional diversity, I think it’s for the best that we had our best eligible athletes compete. Sometimes the point you need to make is bigger than filling a proportional quota.
In general, I think sport should be as pure a meritocracy as possible.
Agreed. Very well said.
Not really. Some Asians groups are collectively fairly successful and some aren’t. The same applies to Black immigrants as well. Those groups are not really a direct comparison in any fair sense.
The jobs in the NBA are already open to all. There are zero barriers of entry to Whites or Asians that aren’t present or absent for Blacks too. In fact, the NBA goes out of it’s way to recruit Asian players and fans through outreach programs, so the idea that there is no AA in sports if false. Moreover, the reality is that almost every NBA team would rather have an equally talented Asian or White player than a Black one for commercial reasons.
Affirmative action isn’t meant to correct for any inborn deficiencies, it’s meant to correct and balance for discrimination and bias in society. I see no evidence that, at this time, any races are discriminated against in sports in the US, so I see no reason for affirmative action to apply to sports. I’m open to the possibility, since it certainly was different in the past, but without any such evidence I wouldn’t support it.
It kinda does. If other teams’ criteria is getting the best players and yours is something other than that, then you’re not likely to be very competitive.
Also, one needs to keep in mind when talking about AA, that it means that a more qualified candidate will be told “no” just because of his or her race. That’s just wrong—period. Imagine training hard for a shot at the pros since junior high school, probably at the expense of your academic career, and all your hard work pays off and you’re good enough to play in the NBA, NFL, the Olympic Team, but when you finally are supposed to was through that door you get a hand on your chest—“No not you, the minority guy standing next to you.”