According to this article, there is. They apparently are being driven out of business by the high cost of medical malpractice insurance in that state. The article is a year old, but the author did a brief follow-up on it here (scroll to the bottom) last week. I’d like to hear from some WV dopers on this. Is there anything to it? If so, is anything being done?
This “crisis” is going on everywhere – if you believe it’s a crisis. The “medical malpractice crisis” is an old favorite of those who want to limit jury awards and lawsuits generally. You could have a GD over it. It’s just part of the endless struggle between --[gross oversimplication coming up] – trial lawyers and consumer advocates on one side and insurance companies and doctors’ associations on the other. I’m biased of course, but I imagine that like most controversies there’s a little truth and exaggeration on both sides of the issue.
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiff’s Side
Yes, there is a crisis, despite what individuals who grossly oversimplify say, in various areas of the country. Many practicing physicians cannot afford to buy insurance anymore, and in some areas, insurers are not offering it at any price. I call that a crisis, when a woman cannot find anyone to provide obstetrical care for her at delivery, other than the poor ER doc at the emergency room who’s on duty when she goes into labor.
QtM, MD
Yes, I’ve read in the Washington Post that the West Virginia legislature is trying to limit pain and suffering awards to either $250,000.00-$1,000,000.00. Maybe this would be a good idea to limit liability to individual doctors, but not for large healthcare corporations such as HMO’s. I hate to be so cynical, but even $1,000,000.00 is not such a large amount of money anymore. If these awards are capped at such an amount, I’m sure that HMO’s will simply calculate how many malpractice cases will emerge and merely purchase enough insurance to cover these cases. In this case, the bad behavior will still occur, it’s just that a small increase in liability insurance will pay for it. This is a gross simplification but that’s what I believe will happen.
My take (I’m in the health insurance side) is also that there is some truth to all sides.
Yes, there are grossly incompentant doctors
Yes, there are grossly abusive trial lawyers (aka “ambulance chasers”)
Yes, there are insurance companies who gouge with premiums.
Yes, there are juries who give riduculous awards.
Yes, there are areas where it’s hard to find an OB/GYN
As for the gentleman who thinks:
I hate to disillusion you, but it is NOT the HMO who pays in these cases - it’s the doctor and the doctor’s insurance malpractice insurer who pays. It’s misunderstandings like these that lead juries to think there are massive corporate pockets available. It is almost always an individual who is penalized, not a corporation.
Also - even if, as you say “1,000,000.00 is not such a large amount”, how many such lawsuits do you think any company could sustain and remain viable?
I don’t have a problem with true malpractice and negligence being punished, however, MUCH of what passes as such has to do with the uncertainty of medicine as a science and not from actual mistakes. An example of this are lawyers who advertise seeking people who have children with birth defects, implying all such circumstances are the result of doctor malpractice. Some are, but most aren’t.
Having served on a jury, I have to say the idea that juors look on corporations and insurance companies as deep pockets to be plundered to salve pain and suffering for a victim - even when no true neglience or crime has occurred - does exist.
By the way - the cost of jury awards is NOT covered by “a small increase in liability insurance”. It’s covered by increasing the cost of the product. In the case of medical malpractice insurance, it’s covered by increasing the cost of the premium paid by the doctor. When such premiums increase to a quarter million a year (and that HAS occurred in parts of the country) it is no longer possible for a doctor to stay in business. Mind you, that’s a quarter million UP FRONT, and that’s assuming you don’t get sued (in which case your premium goes up even higher)
Yes, there is a crisis in many parts of this country. It is due as much to abusive lawyers milking the system and juries not understanding how the awards are paid for as it is due to incompetant doctors or Evil Insurance Companies.
Hmmm…perhaps it is time for a new GD thread. But I am still hoping to hear from some dopers who actually live in WV…
Weird_Al, I suggest that it doesn’t matter whether the person is in WV, TX, NV, MS (the last three also current “crisis” states) or any of the other 46. As I suggested, I don’t think that there is any truly objective answer to the question; the later replies show that there is plenty to argue about without reference to any specific state.
Even if some of the facts are knowable, i.e. “insurer X has raised premiums and/or stopped writing policies in state Y” or “jury awards in state X have increased Y percent over the last Z years”, those facts only lead to exponentially more questions, all of which quickly scamper into GD territory.
You’ve got two fundamental issues that IMHO are unresolvable by any sort of conventional analysis, just because they are largely issues of value judgments and/or political realities:
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What is the proper standard of reasonable medical care? Stated otherwise, what rate of error in medical care is acceptable? If the standard is too strict, you have essentially a no-fault system where many or all medical “bad results” lead to compensation for the injured party. Some might say that’s a good thing, others bad.
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Who (if anyone) deserves to have the political upper hand as between lawyers, doctors, and insurance companies, all three monied interests? Because that’s the underlying fight. All three groups want to make as much money as they can, that’s the capitalist way. (Note: Not my personal feelings, just a jaded analysis). The insurance companies tell the docs and the public that it is the lawyers’ fault. The lawyers tell the public that it is the docs’ fault and the insurance companies’ fault; they also tell the docs that it is the insurance companies that are gouging them, not juries. The docs aren’t sure who to blame but they see large malpractice premiums and think (being human) “that money should be mine.”
Anyway, enough long typing. Even if you get someone from WV I don’t know how anyone can be truly objective. It’s just such a tricky issue with so many different variables . . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer (Plaintiff’s Side)
(Trying to be objective, but recognizing that I can’t either . . .)
I don’t know much about West Virginia, but what the heck, I’ll throw in a thought:
It strikes me as odd that lawsuits would be driving doctors out of West Virginia and not New York. I suspect that New York has at least as many aggressive tort lawyers as West Virginia. Also, I suspect that New York’s demographics would tend to yield higher jury awards in malpractice cases.
I’m not from WV, but I am from KY, and I’m in NC, and I’ll be a rural doctor in eastern KY in a few years.
There are a few reasons why malpractice claims might be more frequent and more successful in WV than in, say, NY:
–Bad outcomes are more frequent due to lack of facilities and appropriate personnel. When someone gives birth at UK (in Lexington), there are two pediatricians standing by to examine the baby, a neonatalogist on hand if necessary, and a NICU down the hall. If you’re out in the sticks, the best you might be able to hope for is a community hospital where there’s a psychiatry resident moonlighting in the ER, who delivered a couple of babies back in medical school.
The general surgeon listed in the article is very likely to be asked to overstep her expertise. As the article says, there isn’t a neurosurgeon around for miles, so what happens when someone comes in and needs neurologic surgery, like, now? She’s probably going to be the most qualified person around to do it. That’s supposed to be taken into account when malpractice claims are considered, but I don’t know that it is.
–Not only that, but delayed time in getting to the hospital can lead to more bad outcomes.
–With the high malpractice insurance, the high rate of Medicaid patients, and the less-than-attractive standard of living in many places, rural areas can have a hard time attracting good doctors, so they often end up with bad ones.
–The “Appalachian mentality” mentioned in the article is probably a factor. I don’t know how much this contributes, but coming from deep in the area, I do know that there is a lot of resentment of successful people. That goes for potential plaintiffs and for juries.
I’d be curious to see a list of the “official” reasons why malpractice insurance is so high in this area, if it’s actually the case (which I suspect it is).
Dr. J
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
Good Lord! That’s the first septuple post I’ve ever seen. I still would like to hear from people in WV, if any of them are watching. According to the second article I cited in the OP, the author of it recently recieved a letter from a resident of Charleston stating: "We just lost Trauma Level 1 service in Charleston. It is now Level 3.”
I am curious to hear if this is an isolated incident, or part of a pattern.
DoctorJ makes an interesting observation, which again operates both as an objective fact and a jumping board for GDs: The “crises” tend to occur in less prosperous areas. In Texas it’s always either “down in the Valley” (the southern border counties, rural, very poor, high Latino population) or in Southeast Texas (somewhat rural, blue-collar, union, democratic stronghold).
DoctorJ’s comments are very insightful, raising further questions (or, perhaps, further jumping points for GDs, such as: do people in poorer areas deserve the same standard of care as people in affluent areas, or should they accept a lower standard? who is to blame, if anyone, when there is only a single overstretched physician to deal with an emergency, and he/she makes a mistake?).
As a trial lawyer I always consider it a victory when people get beyond the knee-jerk “blame it on the lawyers/juries” argument. Not that lawyers and juries aren’t part of the factor (as well as laws, which are lobbied for/against by trial lawyers and every other special interest), but it really chaps me when I see some billboard asking “Will Lawsuit Abuse Cost You Your Doctor?” It stays up there for years, like a “Going Out of Business” sign on a store in Times Square, and the docs (and the lawyers) still drive by it to the office in their luxury automobiles . . . .
Off the soapbox . . .
JohnW77707, Esq.
Trial Lawyer, Plaintiffs’ Side
Sorry. Major computer problem.
I think the comments about WVA are indeed troubling. Perhaps the lawyers do not relize that even wealthy states (like Massachusetts) face the same problems-my wife’s OB-GYN is quitting her practice because she cannot purchase malpractice insurance. The concept of liability is poorly understood by most juries-and the trial lawyers like it that way! This whole thing will end when doctors imsist on arbitration instead of resolution through the courts. As an aside, MERCK (one of the last US-based makers of vaccines) wanted to exit the business, because their liability costs were so high. The US government then found that european vaccine makers (Swiss and French makers) would NOT sell in the US, unless all lawsuits arising from the vaccines be tried in Swiss/French courts!
A pretty damning indictment of the US liability system!