Is there a right way to do cultural appropriation?

And this is why I don’t discount the idea that there are bad forms of cultural appropriation. I wouldn’t wear a war bonnet because it trivializes an article of clothing that has great spiritual and political meaning to a group I don’t belong to. That’s even before taking into account the history of abuse including the attempted erasure of their cultural identity they’ve suffered. I’d be perfectly comfortable purchasing sarongs for my nieces to wear but I would discourage them from putting bindis on their foreheads. There’s nothing disrespectful about wearing a sarong but the bindi has some significant religious meanings and it wouldn’t be appropriate for my nieces to wear one.

Edit: And yes, I realize the bindi and sarongs are from a different group of Indians.

I don’t doubt some people are offended by even lesser slights but that’s a price worth paying.

you say “of course” like it was obvious. It isn’t. What does any culture lose by having other cultures take them on board and do their own thing with them?

@TriPolar is right, the term should have been ‘cultural misappropriation’. It’s far more understandable, and needs less explanation.

You are right, and I’m sure all the people complaining about cultural appropriation would take no issue with a frat party throwing a Slutty Jesus themed party. What does Christianity lose when other people take its ideas on board to do their own thing with them, after all?

There are regular complaints about the over-commercialization of Christmas and losing sight of the “reason for the season”, etc.

Do you feel the same when non-Christians wear crosses or Amazon sells sexy nun costumes? Is that cultural appropriation?

(You’ve been saying you wouldn’t wear a bandi and so perhaps I’m reading too much into what you’re saying. I completely respect people making their own decision to avoid what they feel to be cultural appropriation. My issue is when they start telling other people what is appropriation.)

For those of y’all talking about the concept of people using cultural items from a “different culture” (like non-Japanese people wearing kimonos) being acceptable as long as it’s done “correctly”: What if the people wearing the kimonos “incorrectly” are themselves Japanese? (By “are themselves Japanese” I mean, they were born in Japan, learned Japanese as their native language in early childhood, have eight great-grandparents who were born in Japan and learned Japanese as their native language, and so on.) No doubt that would cause some harrumphing from the more conservative elements of the population about “the kids these days, not even wearing their kimonos properly, standing around on my lawn having Improperly-Worn-Kimono Parties!”, but why should we take that carping any more or less seriously if the improper wearing of kimonos is a fad among kids in Tokyo, as opposed to a fad among kids in Toronto or Timbuktu?

And we can fiddle with the parameters of “born in Japan, learned Japanese as their native language in early childhood, have eight great-grandparents who were born in Japan” almost indefinitely: How should Japanese-Americans wear their kimonos? (Or Japanese Brazilians and Japanese Peruvians and so on.) Or, “white people” who really like anime—under what circumstances are they permitted to wear kimonos, and how careful do they have to be about how they wear them? Or, a “white person” who speaks Japanese fluently, has lived in Japan for many years, and has a deep and wide-ranging knowledge of Japanese history and culture—what sort of kimono-wearing rules apply to them?

And even if the cultural item is something more “deep and meaningful” than a kimono, the same questions still apply. Religious traditionalists will of course be upset when Madonna Louise Ciccone uses imagery from the Catholic religion to make sexy music videos, but should we take the concerns of those religious traditionalists more or less seriously because it’s someone named “Ciccone” doing that, as opposed to someone named “Kobayashi”?

I would answer pretty much all of these questions by saying no, we shouldn’t take the concerns of the cultural conservatives or the religious traditionalists or the cranky old curmudgeons any more or any less seriously based on the “cultural identity” of the person using or misusing this or that article of clothing or ceremonial religious item or recipe for food.

Bad art is bad art, and bad food is bad food—although (barring food poisoning) those are of course totally subjective statements. Improperly worn kimonos (or tuxedos, or dashikis) are tacky, or “cool”, or whatever other totally subjective esthetic judgement each of us happens to make, regardless of the ancestry of the people wearing them. The (mis)-appropriation of a religious icon is rude, or funny, or a heroic attack on a reactionary tradition that oppresses women and LGBT people, or blasphemous—but I’m not much concerned with figuring out who is really “entitled” to wear a crucifix because they’re devout Catholics; or because they’re more “spiritual but not religious” but this was their grandma’s crucifix and they feel an emotional connection to it; or they just think crucifixes look cool and they really love all of that European stuff, it’s sooo much more interesting than boring old Shintoism!

There is something fundamentally essentialist—and even racialist—about this notion of “cultural appropriation”, because it requires us to decide who is “really” a _________ and who is “stealing” that identity, as if people have some kind of innate and immutable “culture”, which of course we do not.

It isn’t cultural appropriation though I admit it’s rather tacky. Here’s the thing, Christianity is part of most Americans cultural heritage. It has influenced politics, great works of art & literature, and it still has some social significance. I’m an atheist who celebrates Christmas while listening to carols about Jesus, I’ve attended multiple funerals and weddings in churches (including one of those for my wife and I), I’m familiar with the Eucharist, Christian eschatology, prosperity gospel, familiar with the Great Schism (1054), the rise of Protestantism, the Holy Trinity, etc., etc. If I decide to dress up as a sexy nun for Halloween I’m not appropriating anything because it’s already part of my culture.

Did you see Man of Steel back in 2013? I couldn’t help but notice the connections between Superman and Jesus. Clark is 33 years old when Kryptonians show up and tells Earth to sacrifice Kal-El to save their world. Then there’s the multiple Christ like poses we see from Superman. The most on-the-nose example being when he flies out into orbit before flying back down.

I think part of the problem is that some people today simply don’t have any culture that they value, or that they would be bothered by anyone else treating disrespectfully.

And apparently they are unable even to imagine anyone else having a culture that matters deeply emotionally to them. I guess if you’ve always lived in some kind of barren cultural desert that may be the case.

People who have cultures that they value usually have parts of it that they love to share, and parts that they don’t like to see denigrated, trivialized, ridiculed, or exploited.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Would you consider it appropriation if an Indian wore a cross? (Assuming they weren’t Christian.)

This is the money quote right here. “That’s a price worth paying,” you say, not acknowledging that you’ll not be the one paying the price.

Mighty generous of you to spend other folks’ cultural capital like that.

How do you know what aspects of my own culture are regularly trivialised, demeaned, satirised or mocked?

When I talk about it being a price worth paying I do so in full knowledge that it is me paying as well.

I remember back on Jerry Springer, the refrain of “YOU DON’T KNOW ME!” It’s just as relevant here. It’s pretty unlikely to me that you have any actual skin in the game and are just now mentioning it, but even if you do, overwhelmingly the arguments about how cultural appropriation is overall silly are made by folks who don’t end up marginalized or stereotyped by it.

That is a very convenient statement and probably has no basis in statistics.

Do people have to produce credentials that pass some litmus test to have an opinion on cultural appropriation? I missed that memo.

What qualifies?

I’m sure they do and they are free to be offended. I just don’t think the offence they feel means they get to stop anyone else doing whatever they want with those cultural aspects.

That’s a silly cite request. I’m referring specifically to Novelty Bubble’s “That’s a price worth [other people] paying” claim (bracketed comment mine, natch), which is a very common form for these discussions to take. When our examples of cultural appropriation are overwhelmingly examples of white people from the United States either dressing in cultural stereotypes or monetizing aspects of other cultures in a way that members of those cultures would struggle to do, it’s pretty clear that the prices are ones that folks think are worth [other people] paying.

That opinion is very handy for you isn’t it? It has the benefit that you can merely dismiss anything I say as irrelevant.

What I’m dismissing–or, rather, pointing out the sadly common appearance of–is your specific willingness for other folks to pay the price of cultural appropriation. Your other arguments, while I disagree with them pretty heavily, I’ve not addressed.

The price I referred to was clearly “offence”.
And If you think I am not offended on a regular basis by people trivialising and bastardising things dear to me then you are completely wrong.
So I do pay the price and am willing to do so because the freedoms afforded to others are worth it.

I agree with many of the other posters that think it’s mostly BS. As I posted in the pit thread, there are some white people who think that Idris Elba shouldn’t play James Bond. There’s white people who think a Black woman shouldn’t enjoy Irish dance. IMHO those particular white people are racist jerks. The people who make a big deal about cultural appropriation are, IMHO, the Native American, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, Nigerian, etc. versions of the white people who complain about those things.

And Brazilians subsequently “appropriating” it from the Japanese and developing it into MMA. Just like your examples, I have no problem with that either. Maybe there’s some people who do, but they probably have very weak arguments.