silenus
December 27, 2017, 4:33pm
41
I was thinking more like “Too much ain’t enough” myself.
Not disagreeing with your point, but I don’t think that is a valid argument. “Oral sex” has “sex” in the name, but a lot of people would say it isn’t sex at all.
DrDeth
December 27, 2017, 4:55pm
43
I said that once when I lived in San Jose, and someone suggested a Mexican retuarant on the (shudder) East Coast… "Do you know what we call Mexican food in San Jose?* Food. "
WotNot
December 27, 2017, 6:10pm
44
puzzlegal:
Uh, no, not in the US. In the US, cured pork belly, sliced thin, is bacon. A round piece of cured pork, that looks like it’s a slice from the foreleg (bone removed) is called “Canadian Bacon”, but it’s not really bacon, it’s just this thing that shows up in eggs benedict. It’s tasty enough, but not actually bacon. Any other cured pork product would be “ham”.
No it wouldn’t. Not legally, in either the US or UK. While the definition of bacon may differ, the customary and statutory definition of what may be sold as ham is the same in both countries: cured meat from the hind leg of a pig.
This is what I find difficult to understand about America: a country that’s gone utterly bacon mad, that produces bacon-flavoured chocolate, bacon-flavoured breath mints, bacon-flavoured soda – and yet cannot wrap its head around the concept of bacon-flavoured pig meat.
WotNot
December 27, 2017, 6:28pm
46
jz78817:
is pancetta bacon?
Sure. Why wouldn’t it be?
WotNot:
No it wouldn’t. Not legally, in either the US or UK. While the definition of bacon may differ, the customary and statutory definition of what may be sold as ham is the same in both countries: cured meat from the hind leg of a pig.
This is what I find difficult to understand about America: a country that’s gone utterly bacon mad, that produces bacon-flavoured chocolate, bacon-flavoured breath mints, bacon-flavoured soda – and yet cannot wrap its head around the concept of bacon-flavoured pig meat.
Oh, the bacon obsession is SO last year. We’ve moved on to pumpkin spice everything.
Seriously, with all that’s going on here in the States, THIS is what you find difficult to understand about us?
WotNot
December 27, 2017, 7:09pm
48
nelliebly:
Oh, the bacon obsession is SO last year. We’ve moved on to pumpkin spice everything.
Seriously, with all that’s going on here in the States, THIS is what you find difficult to understand about us?
Fair point on both counts.
I realise some sort of reference to Monty Python’s Spanish Inquisition sketch would usually be appropriate here, but I can’t seem to work up much enthusiasm. Can we just take as read?
DrCube
December 27, 2017, 7:43pm
49
dstarfire:
So, recipes and preferences aside, does anybody have a definition of “bacon” that covers the three types mentioned so far, but excludes things like ham, sausage, kielbasa, and the like?
D*mnit, I WILL herd these cats, I will!!!
Food definitions don’t always work that way. I found this great article about another British food subject entirely , and it made this comparison:
“It’s what the linguist George Lakoff might call a ‘radial category,’” writes Murphy. “The pudding types all have some things in common with some other pudding types, but not everything, and it’s mostly a matter of convention that they continue to be called ‘pudding.’” Lakoff is a cognitive linguist who’s best known for his thesis that the specific metaphors used in language can shape cognition and perception of the world. A radial category is a category that allows a variety of different items to be grouped under a single umbrella for a variety of reasons. You can think of it sort of like a jellyfish. The body of the jellyfish is the word, and all its tentacles are the threads that make up the concept.
There are lots of examples of radial categories. Take “bread.” Some of the tentacles here might be “a baked dough,” “contains yeast,” “consists of flour of some sort,” and “serves as the starch component of a meal.” Now think about all the weird items we refer to as breads. Banana bread contains no yeast and doesn’t rise. Cornbread also has no yeast, and is made from a batter rather than a dough. Flatbread has no yeast and is often cooked in a pan rather than baked. Some breads are made from potato or rice paste or various other ingredients. Some are sweet, some are savory. Some are fluffy, some are crisp. For an item to be considered a bread, it has to grab onto one of the many tentacles that make up the vague and loosely-defined category of “bread,” but not all of them.
Properly done corned beef is good . A couple of bay leaves, two tablespoons of molasses, orange zest, half a handful of cloves, star anise if you’re feeling ambitious - simmer slowly for hours for salty sweety fragrant goodness.
WotNot:
No it wouldn’t. Not legally, in either the US or UK. While the definition of bacon may differ, the customary and statutory definition of what may be sold as ham is the same in both countries: cured meat from the hind leg of a pig.
This is what I find difficult to understand about America: a country that’s gone utterly bacon mad, that produces bacon-flavoured chocolate, bacon-flavoured breath mints, bacon-flavoured soda – and yet cannot wrap its head around the concept of bacon-flavoured pig meat.
Eh, I wouldn’t try to sell it as ham. In fact, I wouldn’t try to sell it at all. I’d still call it “ham”, because it’s looks and tastes more like ham than like bacon.
In the US, you can’t call that stuff “bacon”, either, not without specifying what it actually is.
The term “bacon” is used to describe the cured belly of a swine (hog) carcass. If meat from other portions of the carcass is used, the product name must identify the portions where the bacon comes from, e.g., “Pork Shoulder Bacon.” Bacon is generally produced from young animals (6 to 7 months old) that weigh between 175 to 240 pounds.
Pork bacon without any other descriptors is raw (uncooked) and must be cooked before eating. Most bacon sold in the United States is “streaky” bacon, long narrow slices cut crosswise from the hog belly that contain veins of pink meat within white fat. Unless otherwise noted, the information in this publication refers to “streaky” bacon.
In addition to “streaky” bacon, other U.S. favorites are American-style Canadian bacon (round slices of pink meat from the loin), turkey bacon made from light and dark turkey meat, and beef bacon prepared from various beef cuts. See the “Glossary of Bacon Terms” (found at the end of this publication) for definitions.
So “bacon” by itself means what you call “streaky bacon”, and “_____ bacon” can be any cured food, including turkey.
We have turkey ham, too, although like turkey bacon, it needs to be labeled:
The Food Safety and Inspection Service is responsible for ensuring that meat, poultry, Siluriformes, and eggs are safe and are properly labeled and packaged. Learn more about our inspection services and process.
Hams may be fresh, cured, or cured-and-smoked. Ham is the cured leg of
That’s the punchline I was going for, but silenus’ works too!
Just to muddy the waters further: pig-free bacon .
From Harry Turtledove-The R Strain
The story is set in the near future. A biotech company Genetic Enterprises reveals its latest product: a genetically engineered pig that was a ruminant, hence the name “R-Strain”. This meant that the R-strain would absorb more nutrients from its feed since “cud crewing” allowed better digestion. As a consequence, the pigs would gain weight faster and could be brought to market sooner, earning the farmers a bigger return.
That immediately engenders a religious and philosophical question: Since the R-strain chews its cud, is it kosher? The company turns to Rabbi Aaron Kaplan to answer the question.
Yes, but the term “bacon” is used in countries beyond the US FDA’s jurisdiction, and legal definitions are often distinct from their common usage.
“Cheddar” and “Champagne” have specific legal definitions in the UK/EU that don’t apply and aren’t followed here in the US (or in Canada, iirc).
Smid
December 28, 2017, 1:49pm
57
Corned beef is two different things on each side of the atlantic:
US Corned Beef is UK Salt Beef
UK Corned Beef is US Bully beef (not sure if that’s the term, but its this in tin version: Corned beef in tin/can
Smid
December 28, 2017, 1:51pm
58
To throw something different in the mix, I believe the term “danish bacon” was used a lot to describe the british back bacon when I was growing up. Not sure if the Danish actually have Bacon like that, most european bacon tends to be streaky when I’ve seen it.
Smid:
Corned beef is two different things on each side of the atlantic:
US Corned Beef is UK Salt Beef
UK Corned Beef is US Bully beef (not sure if that’s the term, but its this in tin version: Corned beef in tin/can
I’ve never heard of bully beef, but we also have corned beef in a can here in the US.
dstarfire:
Yes, but the term “bacon” is used in countries beyond the US FDA’s jurisdiction, and legal definitions are often distinct from their common usage.
“Cheddar” and “Champagne” have specific legal definitions in the UK/EU that don’t apply and aren’t followed here in the US (or in Canada, iirc).
Sure. I am only commenting on the word “bacon” in the US. In the US, unless explicitly specified otherwise, it means cured pork belly. Or “streaky bacon” ( a term I never heard before this thread) in the UK.
