What definition of terrorism are using that would include these things as examples?
What is in their Constitution does not make them terrorists. However, it sets the basis for their willingness to support terrorists (of course by their definition they are not terrorists but that is another debate). Indeed…more than willingness they pretty much obligated themselves to do so assuming their Constitution holds the same weight there as ours does here. After that it becomes easier to buy into them supporting terrorists groups for which I provided other evidence per what the OP was asking for.
How?
I’m not seeing it.
I mean, I feel comfortable assuming that Iran does do so; but, I’m just not making the connection between the snippets you posted and the conclusion you’re drawing.
Ok…
“the complete elimination of imperialism and the prevention of foreign influence”
One of their major gripes at the US is what they view as US imperialism. They are committed to eliminating that.
"unsparing support to the mustad’afiin of the world"*
Seems pretty straightforward. They completely support freedom fighters. Their freedom fighters are our terrorists more often than not.
"…supports the just struggles of the mustad’afun against the mustakbirun* in every corner of the globe."*
Again seems straightforward enough. They support the oppressed against the opressors anywhere in the world. The US is frequently seen as an oppressor in the Middle East therefore Iran supports people against the United States.
As I said before- if you doubt that Iran supports anti-Isreali terrorism, you’re either way too cynical or way too optimistic. OTOH, if you take a “prove it” attitude to Iran offering more than (im)moral support to anti-USA terrorism, I think you’re just being reasonable… after Iraq.
Put me on the “prove it” list. That of course supposes it is real, hard, documentable, verifiable proof. Any claimed links be definite and with proof. No flip flopping on the “facts” or “changing” the facts in order to sell it. None of that stuff where “he” has a secret file that nobody else sees. None of that “I know because some unidentified and unreliable double agent says so”. No delaying or suppressing reports that say the opposite. In short, none of what has happened in the past. Does that sound reasonable?
…what does Israeli intelligence say about Iran sponsored terrorism? Presumably , since the fall of the Sha, quite a few Iranian Jews have migrated to Israel, and some must be serving as intelligence agents. What do they say?
Again, I’d like to see ACTUAL money transfers, documents, etc., showing that the Iranian government has funnelled massive amounts of cash, weapons, etc., to terrorist groups.
Of course, Iranian leaders pumpout lots of anti-American propaganda (so does Egypt as well, an ostensible American “ally”). But there is a big difference between shrieking “death to America”, and actually transferring cash to A-Queda operatives in hamburg.
Lt’s face it, after Iraq, I’m pretty skeptical about anything the government says. I’d like some actual proof, thank you.
snip:
Monday, Nov. 1, 2004 10:13 a.m. EST
Iran Lawmakers Vow ‘Death to America’ with Nuke Vote
Lawmakers in Iran shouted “Death to America” on Sunday as they voted unanimously to resume enriching uranium at the country’s Bushehr nuclear facility.
My internet connection is 16k at the moment or I would give you a better source quote but you can search under: (Iran, “Death to America”,government) and get an idea of how many times the legislative body in Iran chants “death to America” during session.
DrDerth, you posted your thoughts on Feb 10th which is 4 days after Iran’s official “Death to America” day. This is close to the Iranian hostage date of November 4th (1979). Anti-American sentiment from Iranian Islamic leaders goes back at least to that event.
I’m going out on a limb here and suggest that the mullah-based political system in Iran does not like the United States.
That would be “DrDeth”, not DrDerth. Supid spell check.
At no time have I doubted that Iran has “Anti-American sentiment”. Of course they do. What I doubt is that they give more than (im)moral support to Anti-USA Terrorism activities. I am not saying they don’t, mind you- but after Iraq I need solid proof.
Smoking-gun proof that is public domain is always tough. It was made harder when the CIA lost most of it’s Iranian spies in the 90’s.
I don’t think it requires a mountain of evidence to believe a government that celebrates “death to America” day would sponsor terrorism. It certainly sounds like a mandate, particularly when members of the government chant it during a voting session.
Public knowledge of an event is usually required to garner support for overt action. However, I would support covert action if classified information dictated it.
I predict Israel will deal with any nuclear program that poses a threat to it.
And somehow the only possible means for this terrorism?
Still doesn’t seem to obligate them to support terrorism.
And somehow the only possible means for this terrorism?
MAybe there’s some other variable involved that I’m not aware of.
There’s a difference between being against US policies and being against US citizens.
It’s easy to imagine why Iranians would have a few chips on their shoulder re US foreign policy. Yet this is different than actually engaging in attacks on the US and her citizens.
I’d be willing to wager a lot that it goes back even further.
Probably even before Operation Ajax
Not to sound too nitpicky, but systems don’t have feelings.
There’re a number of reasons that Iranians might give for disliking US foreign policy, and by extension the govt that invented and executes it. That’s not the same as saying that Iranians hate Americans.
Sounds reasonable to me. After the Iraq lies we all should consider UK and US government sources unreliable until independently proven otherwise.
Don’t forget when someone senior in the Bush Admin turned over topsecret info that could get people killed to a foreign national (Chalabi) who then gave it to the Iranians. The Iranians found out that we had broken one of their codes. Now we can no longr eavesdrop on the communications that used that medium thanks to the calculation or carelessness of someone in the Bush Admin.
U.S. intelligence officials on Friday said Ahmed Chalabi, a member of the Iraqi Governing Council with ties to senior Pentagon officials, gave intelligence secrets to Iran so closely held in the U.S. government that only “a handful” of senior officials know them.
The Bush Admin characterized the info as the kind that could “get people killed.”
I’m sure this has not helped our espionage efforts in Iran.
Did you know that members of Team Bush morally support terrorists? One of them even raised funds for some January of last year. It was the same guy who used his influence @ the Pentagon to try to broker a deal (a deal that was opposed by the NSA and the FBI) to sell the phonelines used by the US Army and Fed Gov to Chinese intelligence agencies. What a great American!
Would you want even a molehill’s worth?
So if Israel doesn’t “deal with” the Iranian nuclearprogram will you be of the opinion that it does not pose a threat to it?
Definitely. I understand Tony Blair took a lot of heat for siding with Bush. Did he recover, or is he olitically finished? Just curious.
I’m not voting for him but despite the Iraq thing the govt has done a lot of good things socially, despite the trashed state of the country when they took over (our rail system has collapsed thru decades of neglect and the ‘have some free money pals’ privatisation.
The tories are inept scoundrels led by one of the major guilty parties from the previous administration and are desperately playing the race and the ‘lower taxes, higher public expenditure’ cards. They stand no chance of winning and may even be destroyed as a major party. New Labour is really the old tory party with better spin and have forced the tories to tack to the extreme right.
My guess is mass abstentions and tactical voting will see the labour majority slashed to double figures. There is the RESPECT anti-war coalition running and they tend to do well in ethnic areas that were once solid Labour.
In the end there is no credible alternative to New Labour.
PatriotX,
I’m not sure why my post launched you into an anti-Bush zone but hey, good for you.
As an American, I am honor bound to be in an anti-Bush Admin zone.
Then you’re all set. No need for me to take up your valuable time.