I think we’re not quite on the same page here. What I’m saying is what.would possibly give the lone person whose existence has only ever known one reality, that of the room with the hyenas, the insight into even the possibility of the existence of other human beings, much less of infinite alternate realities (universes)? Wouldn’t a knowledge of and belief in the “all possible worlds” hypothesis depend on awareness of an existence beyond the room? And how would this awareness ever be achieved? What might provide the initial suspicion that there existed anything at all beyond the room?
We’ve got a lone eternal person, somehow magic’ed into being in a room full of hyenas, and you’re concerned at how they could be made aware of the infinite worlds hypothesis?
As if we couldn’t also magic that knowledge into their head or make the hyenas talking hyenas capable of relating information (including scientific theories and unconfirmed hypotheses) like in the Lion King (that’s what I meant to say—king, not kind). Because, again, we’re entertaining the possibility of a lone eternal human here. Forget about whether or not talking hyenas could ever possibly exist in any reality (at which point getting a room full of them would be trivially easy) and just think about that for a minute. A lone. Eternal. Human.
Taken to its logical extreme, this multiverse theory must also mean that there is a Universe out there where there are no other Universes, but only a Monoverse. :dubious: It is very interesting, but it makes my head spin. A nice feeling, btw.
Only if that is a possible universe. So far, all we know is that there is at least one universe in which we (you and I) are unaware of the existence of other universes, or whether there even are other universes. No other universe has yet been empirically demonstrated to be possible. We have a sample size of one.
My understanding (and it’s probably flawed) is that this isn’t true - there’s an infinite number of numbers between 1 and 2, but none of them are 3. You can have an infinite number of universes and not necessary have the above.
Meanwhile, let’s take the OP literally re: “not being born”. If a conception hasn’t occurred, a nothingness has no chance of birth, and thus is irrelevant. The only “not born” entities are embryos terminating in miscarriage, stillbirth, or abortion, or fertilized zygotes that don’t implant.
The fundy jeezoid proclamation that “life begins at fertilization” is totally bogus, as life is continuous - living sperm and ova transmit life. The spiritual claim that a soul is implanted at fertilization is nonbiblical, as “soul” means “breath”, thus living having-been-born folks are counted as “souls” (“Population, 475 souls in town.”)
But let’s forget those contradictions. Given: every human fertilization generates a soul, and souls escape dead bodies to hell if their post-partum sins are unsaved, otherwise to heaven. Thus all adults who lived their lives, were saved, died, and ascended heavenward, are joined by countless more unborn souls who never experienced external life, who may not have even grown embryonic nervous systems. What have these cohorts to talk about?
The difference between “never been born”, and dead after having lived, is thus the ability to gossip.
Juffo-Wup is the power of life… hot warmth in the cold Void. It flows through all things, binding them together, making them one. You are Non-Juffo-Wup, you cannot understand.
That’s kind of where I’m coming from, too. So much of it, from a layman’s standpoint as it is in the popular imagination anyways, seems to be predicated on the assumption (laid out by various apologists arguing for a Creator god, but not necessarily hinging on that in this case) that we can conceive of other universes that are possible or could possibly exist.
I don’t think we can. The problem of our deficient understanding of our OWN universe, is non-trivial. Part of what I think allows us to entertain the possibility of other universes is based in the notion that anything in this universe could ever have played out differently, as if ever moment involves an uncountable number of coin flips and that our mere inability to predict the outcome of those coin flips means that they must necessarily be bound by chance in at least a few circumstances.
But I am not satisfied that the course of this universe is not already determined. We must not confuse uncertainty with probability. That we, as players on the field, don’t know how a given coin in the air will land does not mean that it really could land either heads or tales from the moment it is released: indeed, an observer with sufficiently accurate ability to measure and observe the movement of the coin and surrounding matter could probably tell you, even using the equipment available to us now, how the coin will land the moment it has left the tosser’s hand with a high degree of confidence.
Likewise, just because we lack the observational capability or mental capacity to observe and understand all that is at play in our current universe does not mean that any conceivable outcome, either locally or on a wider scale, is “possible.” It’s just maybe that we haven’t ruled certain outcomes out yet, and have greater confidence in the likelihood of some than others based on what we know and understand.
I don’t and wont have any blood children of my own. I am my fathers only male child. For my fathers line, I will be the last. I’m suddenly mourned by the fact that there will not be future branches. No one will look back to me for their ancestry, no blood grandchildren or great grandchildren. The limb is dead. What will be my legacy? There is none.
Simplistically, I think you are trying to compare apples and oranges.
Yout two “situations” are both states of non-existence. So assessing both, and attempting to find an answer is like saying, “An apple and an orange are both round, both have skin, both have seeds. Since they are both fruits, what is the difference between them, and which one is better?”
I would not be able to answer that until I ate both. And depending on subjective circumstances, I’m just as likely to choose either one.
Therefore, I propose that no one can actually tell what the differences are between the two states of non-existence.
You should go ahead and do just that, then report back here.
~VOW
Given that I have spent precisely zero time looking back on my ancestors for anything, I don’t see it as being a big deal. My mom is big into reading about her long-dead relatives, but it does nothing for me - so I don’t care that nobody will be looking back at me (or not) either.
RA Heinlein wrote of an iguana who bragged his grandpa was a T.Rex. I myself am not big on genealogy either. I can claim June Cash and Elvis as kin but they don’t make me a good singer. A heritage site says I’m 6th cousin to some classic Western outlaws. Yippee.
I’m also not big on alternate universes except as plot devices for smutty SciFi. What have alt.realities ever done for me? If they can’t affect me anytime soon, why fret? Reality here is bothersome enough.
I don’t obsess on my progenitors. Still, being an ancestor can be fun. I unexpectedly (because family were long incommunicado) have grandkids - who like me! They like me now, anyway. Will they look back at me as Old Weird Grandpa RioRico?
Before I was conceived, I was a plan, nothing more. After I was conceived, I was a fond hope. After I was born, I was a bother, and still am. After I die, I’ll be a memory for awhile. Our family toasts those passed on Xmas - that’s our tradition. When the next generation has passed, we’ll likely be forgotten except in government files.
Maybe official records are all that distinguish the never-were from the ain’t-here-now.
