Is there any meaning to life? or is it really just nothing?

I can become fairly nihilistic every once in a while, and I’m wondering whether or not there’s a reason to feel that way. If you can grasp that there is no set morality except that which you’ve been taught, which itself is based on fears and selfish attempts at self preservation, then you can see the logic in that there just might be no satisfactory purpose to life.

We all need a purpose to live. If there were no food or water we would live to acquire those things. When food and water are not a major concern, i.e. you have agriculture, domesticated animals, etc… you live to what end? Most likely you begin to feed your own desires, maybe your sex drive, or your senses, maybe you’ll learn new and interesting things to distract yourself. When that is not enough, you may pursue something of greater quality, maybe give back to society, or study something meaningful to improve yourself or garner the ability to do something more than what you can do with your own two hands. Is it then possible when all of that is not enough, that no matter what you do you aren’t doing anything more than distracting yourself and avoiding the fact that there really is no reason to do anything, That maybe you cannot create your own destiny. However, we have the power of cognition, we may very well have evolved to be self aware and understand the concept of meaningless but not before our needs and desires are met. Maybe we can now"trick" ourselves into being satisfied with goals that are not fulfilling. After all no goal, by the fact that the nature of life itself is not fulfilling, can be fulfilling for any reason unless you choose to believe that it is fulfilling. It can be nothing more than belief either way. In the end we may bargain with the idea of leaving a legacy. But once dead, legacy bears no meaning to whomsoever the legacy belongs.

Your life has whatever meaning or purpose you want it to have. If you want it to have nothing, it will have nothing.

*A very wise, older friend had some interesting things to say to me recently on this subject. I had emailed him that I was experiencing similar thoughts to the OP “What does it all mean?” or more in my case “My lot in life kinda sucks!”.

Anyway, here’s the relevant portion of his long reply. I urge anyone to read it, I think its very moving.*

You like movies? Watch “The Last Emperor.” If you Netflix, it’s on the “Instant Viewing” list. I just watched it again (I saw it when it first came out) and it is about Pu Yi, the last emperor of China. Very good movie about a man whose life didn’t turn out the way he thought it would. Don’t know if it is historically accurate, but in this portrayal there is a certain grace in Pu Yi’s final acceptance of his lot in life.

Will you be working on Monday the 22nd? Maybe we can meet for lunch. I’m coming up to Cincy to visit my brother James’ grave site. He is buried over at Spring Grove. He would have been 56 this month. His life was quite sad–he was retarded but not so much that he wasn’t aware of it. He never had a chance by the standards of our society. And then one day some years ago–a few weeks before the guy from the Vikings died from heat stroke–he fell over on a sidewalk in Norwood. Also heat stroke.

I carry some curious baggage about Jim. My parents had more or less prepped me on the fact that it would be my responsibility to take care of him as he and I got older, after the parents were gone. And that was my mindset, except there were times when I resented what I childishly felt was an imposition. Dutiful but also partly resentful. Now that he is gone, I sometimes beat myself up about that. I’ll ask myself, “Did I love him enough? Did I show him in ways he knew and understood?”

So I occasionally take an opportunity to stop by and visit him; it’s my small way of announcing to the world that his life did have meaning and is not yet forgotten. And, of course, it soothes my pangs of conscience. Anyhow, if you want to try to meet up, give me an addy and a rough time that work work for you. I’ll be going over to Goshen on the east side for the evening.

I wouldn’t characterize my visits to Jim as acts of defiance nor as acts of deference with respect to the universe-at-large. Even thought there is a little of both in my motives. This may sound strange, Steve, but I think of it as a step on the path of acceptance. Even though I remember Jim now, when I’m gone, he’ll be lost to History. As will you and I and almost every one we know, be it 50 or 100 or 1000 years from now. It’s tempting to ask onself, “What’s the point?”

But here’s the thing. History is not only writ large. The “bit players” of human history actually do change the universe. Literally. There are billions of folks throwing rocks of cause-and-effect into the universal pond and where the concentric cirles redound (not to mention how they interact with each other) is often hard to predict. Nevertheless, each person is absolutely unique and has a very specific relationship to the rest of the world. Once one is gone, that specific relationship cannot be replaced or replicated.

So what we do does matter. There is a point. And though in most cases our lives will not become part of recorded history to be passed into remembrance (and honor and glory), they will have accomplished something more vital: for better or worse, each life changes the composition of the world. It’s one of the reasons why Leibniz called this “the best of all possible worlds.”

Choose wisely and perhaps as important, choose with moderation. Think about where you fit into the scheme of things and accept the truth that even if our lives seem small, they are not. Talk about equality! You are just as important as George Washington–it just may not seem like it on the surface. We all have our trials and tribulations. And it all boils down to–"there’s one of you and there’s one of not-you, and we call the “not-you” the rest of the universe.

Tough concept I’ll try to illustrate with some thoughts about the workplace. I’m an elitist and I’m also a proletarian. Nothing wrong about getting some dirt under the fingernails. Nothing wrong with being ambitious, either. Lots of nitty-gritty ways to earn consumption tickets are more honorable than the kinds of lifestyles we see splashed throughout the media. Who’s more useful to society, you or I with our blue-collarish work, or some banker who makes his daily bread fucking over many people and society-at-large? Or some corporate insurance asswipe who denies some kid the cancer treatment he needs on the basis of an actuarial table?

We sell our labor, our sweat and our know-how, not our souls. Our souls require consideration far broader than that which is found in a workplace. Would that more people understood that because if they did, perhaps there would be a lot less evil around us, not only in the workplace but in the totality of life, too.

So, if you get down on yourself amidst the mindless banality and bullshit found in all workplaces, or if someone “more socially respectful” than you looks down on you as though you were a nothing, a peon, remind yourself like this: “It’s a good thing I don’t locate my sense of identity merely in the way I sell my labor. I’m more than that.”

Work is compromise by it’s very nature and in todays environment, we ought to be careful to protect that which is ours. I haven’t said much on the board re economics in recent months for two reasons. First, it gives other folks room to develop their owm hypotheses, and second, round 2 of the shitstorm will be hitting this year (it’s already started) and I don’t want to scare people. Unless there are some very radical policy shifts then America is headed down a long slow decline towards a social climate similar (but worse, imo) than that which hit England in the 70s and 80s. Characterized by very long term unemployment for some folks, among other things. So even if work seems like a slog now, what you do is honorable work and it helps protect you and yours. That’s no small thing.

In any case, Steve, all you can do as you walk through life is strive to be the “best of all possible Steves.” The striving part matters as a verb, and even if our actions don’t always measure up as high as we would like (I know that’s very true in my case) they are generally honorable in a silent, but meaningful way. Sometimes we lose sight of that in the rush of day-to-day living.

Life is like the campsite rule: If you leave it a better place than when you came, you did good. And that is something to strive for.

The motivation for this is not really relevant.

“Meaning”, “purpose” and “reason” are all entirely human constructs that (as far as we know) exist nowhere else in the universe except in our minds. Now you can take that to mean that they don’t really exist… Or you can take the opposite view and say that that makes us very special indeed. Just as stars are the source of light, we are the source of meaning for the entire universe. We are literally the universe experiencing itself. Why is that important? Because we say so. (“Importance” and “saying so” are two more of those exclusively human concepts… so is “concept”) From that it becomes a truism that the meaning of life is what we make it. Yes it’s a circular argument but so is your very existence. You are a model of a model of a model of model of a model… A hallucination so strong that it believes in itself. It’s something at the core our being that has always made this question simultaneously so easy and so difficult to answer.


I don’t know, it’s hard to talk about this stuff without descending into new-agey sounding bullshit, but I’ve managed to satisfy myself with the above answer. YM, of course, MV.

Life is meaningless. But the fact that it’s meaningless is ALSO meaningless.

Lemme 'splain.

Most of us *want *life to have some meaning or purpose, just like we want each day to have meaning or purpose. Otherwise, why get up in the morning? So, when we think or hear that life is meaningless, our first thought is usually something like, “AAAAAHHHHH! No, no, that’s…that’s…HORRIBLE!”

Nah. It’s not horrible. It just is. It is what it is. You live, you work, you die, and we will cry for 20 minutes or so over your gravesite, and then we’ll go to lunch.

When your nearest and dearest are talking about you after your death, they never ever will say, “That muody25, he was alive!” The fact that you were alive means nothing at all. So what does have meaning? What you’ve *done *while you are alive. Actions. Actions have meaning. They’ll talk about what you did, that time you made them all laugh, the table you made that’s still sitting in the hallway (or whatever).

Life just is, like a glass just is. What you put into that vessel is what gives it purpose.

Life, the universe and everything has absolutely no innate, objective meaning. That doesn’t mean it can’t have meaning, period. The meaning of our existence is one that each person decides for him or herself.

Some critical mass of like-minded people will come together and create a society that has a certain amount of shared meaning, but that meaning, again, comes from the people who live in the society, not from some cosmic warehouse where God wrote it down and put it away for us to find later.

I don’t understand the people who find nihilism depressing and horrible. I find it pretty uplifting and freeing. I’d much rather live in a world where I can decide what my life is for than a world where people who died thousands of years ago get a say in it.

I’ve always thought no matter how insignificant or short or difficult someone’s life is, that life touches other lives, which touch other lives, and on and on. For good or for evil. We are all connected. Your kindness to a stranger may prevent her from going home to commit suicide; instead, she feels heartened, decides to seek help, and recovers to go on to do something of great importance (become a medical researcher who finds a cure for a disease!). Or you forbid your son to see ‘that trashy girl’ - he rebels and does so anyway; they have a child who grows up in a dysfunctional home, and that kid goes on to do something of great importance (kill someone in a robbery!). I believe every action, every interaction, has some effect on the world even if we can’t see it or know it.

from Alan Watts:

The meaning of life is fun.

I think that self-awareness and coming to a satisfying conclusion depend on a process. I assume whoever responds to this post has at least reached the point where they wonder what meaning life has. Some people stay at the first answer that makes you feel good because of the prospect that meaninglessness is bad.

Answer 1: Life’s purpose is to leave having done good

If Answer 1 Fails see answer 2:

Answer 2: Life is what you make of it, You make your own purpose

if Answer 2 Fails see answer 3:

Answer 3: AHH!!! I’m a nihilist life has nooo meaning!! I should just die. But hey… wait, I don’t want to die still!!! Ahhh!!! I’m a victim of my own instinct programmed into me and i have no control over what i do i’m just a meaningless out come of some systematic process of eating breathing and shitting!!! EVEN THE WAY I THINK SERVES TO PRESERVE MYSELF AND I WILL DIE ANYWAY

If answer 3 fails READ WAYWARDS POST:

wayward
Guest

Join Date: Nov 2000
“Meaning”, “purpose” and “reason” are all entirely human constructs that (as far as we know) exist nowhere else in the universe except in our minds. Now you can take that to mean that they don’t really exist… Or you can take the opposite view and say that that makes us very special indeed. Just as stars are the source of light, we are the source of meaning for the entire universe. We are literally the universe experiencing itself. Why is that important? Because we say so. (“Importance” and “saying so” are two more of those exclusively human concepts… so is “concept”) From that it becomes a truism that the meaning of life is what we make it. Yes it’s a circular argument but so is your very existence. You are a model of a model of a model of model of a model… A hallucination so strong that it believes in itself. It’s something at the core our being that has always made this question simultaneously so easy and so difficult to answer.


I don’t know, it’s hard to talk about this stuff without descending into new-agey sounding bullshit, but I’ve managed to satisfy myself with the above answer. YM, of course, MV.

IF THAT DOESN’T WORK FOR YOU, I don’t think that there’s much more you can think about. Try distracting yourself with a some quality hobby or something. otherwise you is be goin to just go crazy thinkins bouts the MULTIVERSE!!!

elsewise,

You is still be doin what you doin everyday anyways. thinkins bout it won’t change a thing in your world…

Nah…I think you have Answers 2 and 3 reversed, in the order most people go through. Moralism, apostacy and *then *reconciliation. (Of course, like most emotional/cognitive processes, there’s some amount of sliding back and forth until things really settle out.)

I no zero elders who are true nihilists, and lots who are “the meaning of life is what you make of it” folks. Kohlberg’s stages, as well as Gilligan’s and Vygotsky’s and Maslow’s hierarchy, seem to back this observation up through science, as well.

I STAND CORRECTIMAFIED my dear sir. I stand correctificated!

I do feel like i’ve gone through that process like a hundred times… lots of sliding back and forth like you said
Anybody with some good ways to turn your downwards spiral around?

I find that thinking about the following is a good one:

website is… http://www.confusion.discover-your-mind.co.uk/4-psychology%20nihilism.htm
PSYCHOLOGY OF NIHILISM

1). It is the fear of the loss of meaning. This is the fear of meaninglessness.

The emotional dynamics are fear + guilt (mode of self-pity). [³]

This mode of guilt generates the sense of meaninglessness.

2). It is the belief in world-denial, the belief that the material world has no meaning. This is the advocacy of meaninglessness.

The emotional dynamics are fear + envy.

Here envy is the more powerful of the two : envy controls and constrains the fear. Envy sustains the belief that it would not matter if the world did not exist.

3). It is the euphoria of egotism, arising from the belief that the individual can create his own meaning to life. It is the euphoria that powers the belief that one is free and non-restrained in the creation of one’s own meanings and values. It is the advocacy that there are no barriers to personal achievement.

The emotional dynamic is narcissism (in vanity mode).

Where the meanings link to social values then mania is likely to be present as well. This belief is a feature of some Continental literary theorists (some post-structuralists and post-modernists). It is also a feature of some new age thinking, as when a person believes that we can create our own reality.

That’s ma’am to you. :wink: Glad my years of psychology, philosophy and religion classes paid off.

You have some really neat ideas and an interesting thought process. Do you mind if I ask how old you are?

21 year oldssss

You know what would be pretty cool?

if anybody who posts here, or has posted before and is coming back for more would start their post or edit there original post with:

AGE and GENDER

Maybe we can see some interesting result as to who is interested in this who thinks a certain way. Not that it’ll be super explanatory, but would be pretttty INTERESANTE

I envy you the next 10 years. There’s so much cool stuff to discover about the world and yourself! (I hope that doesn’t sound too patronizing…I just really love watching people - including myself - figure stuff out.)

I’m a 35 year old female and, perhaps more to the point for this particular thread, I’m an agnostic neo-pagan interfaith minister, as well as a nursing student.

I, to some extent, agree with what was said above, but I think it’s a little bit more than that. Yes, “meaning” and “purpose” and all of those things are human constructs, and this is why we ask this question even though it inherently has no objective answer. But it still remains that we need a reason to wake up in the morning, to go to our jobs, to have relationships… otherwise, if there is no meaning, why put forth the effort to continue to exist at all.

But that’s the whole point, because we created those constructs, we get to decide what they mean; that’s the beauty of it. It’s like asking what the meaning of art is. There is no inherent meaning to art, and every single piece, has it’s own meaning, it’s own purpose. Life is exactly the same way, where each and every person has his own meaning, except we are are both the artist and the art.

I think that’s the reasonthat it is so easy to despair, because so much around us tries to define us and our lives based upon some external measures, we’re trying to fulfill a meaning prescribed by someone else, not by ourselves. We become the frustrated artist who is bound, not by his imagination, but by the whims of these external forces. It then becomes a chore, and it seems pointless precisely because we’re not able to fulfill our true purpose, which only we can define. When I finally can to this realization, those sorts of moments all but disappeared.

So, if I were to narrow it down, I would use what is, in fact, one of my favorite quotes: “The meaning of life is to give life meaning.”

You know what is a really baffling concept. The idea that we don’t make any actual choices.

There was a great program on self awareness on BBC Horizon. This guy goes around from scientist to scientist trying to decipher an explanation for self awareness.

Turns out they’ve proven a few things about the human mind like:

Decisions we make are actually made for us by a portion of our mind not consciously controlled. This meaning we are the slave of our own mind, and our conscious self is just a projection we seem to have accepted as a reality whether or not it actually exists

They actually mapped out the source of the signal in the brain, and they can TELL you what decision you will make before you are even aware of it.

They say pick a ball. and they’ve got one on the left side and the right side.
Then before you even consider which ball, They have written down which ball is going to be picked.

YOU ARE PREDESTINED TO DO THINGS!!!

of course theres another way of looking at it

YOU ARE PREDISTINED TO… Be yourself
and your brain will never make you do something you wouldn’t consciously agree with. It’s the one thing that you will ALWAYS agree with. After all it is YOUR brain.

But still unsettling to think, that the person you know as yourself is just a puppet.
HOMONCULOUS!!!

Well, it sort implies the reason for life is to do good.