Since its probably impossible to convince everyone of god’s word, wouldn’t it be easier to simply remove all references of god in every context so that everyone is ignorant of god, thus assuring heaven?
I do not recall the exact passage, but Jesus was quoted as saying not he who says Lord,Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my father.
There is no proof that the Bible is the Word of God. Humans gave it that title. It was written, decided what was God’s word or not at the council of Trent at the request of Constantine (300+ years after Jesus’s time). who needed a unified Christianity. Humans also stated it was inspired, so it is his belief and if it helps him to think that way I see nothing wrong with it, but he isn’t any more correct than people who believe the Koran was said to be dictated to Muhammad by an angel .
Do you think God is under the authority of the council of Trent? or perhaps that despite the council of Trent God is still perfectly able to get His Word to us exactly as He wants it? Is the council of Trent a threat to God?
God tells/warns us ‘lean not on your own understanding’, ‘His ways are not our ways’, and He will teach us His ways. The above quote, if God is God, really logically doesn’t make any sense.
I think you mean that if your finite idea of God is correct then the quote makes no sense. That your conception (or anyone else’s) of God actually encompasses the infinite is what makes no sense.
And if someone can give me a clear picture of just wtf Heaven looks like, I’d appreciate it.
The Council of what???
Time to research your history. You’re about 1200 years off.
I’m assuming he meant the Council of Nicea.
The intresting point here is that Jesus says this, not, as usually quoted by evangelcial Christians, as proof that only Christians are gonna be saved, but in answer to the worries of a disciple:
Bottom line, Jesus says to trust in God and in Him, that He’s going away, and they cannot yet follow Him, but will follow Him later, because they know the Way. Mistaking this Way for something He’d taught, Thomas asks Him what the Way is … and He says that He Himself is the Way, and the Truth and the Life as well.
Remember that for John this is not some itinerant Jewish rabbi but the co-eternal Son, the incarnate Word of God, through whom everything came into being, who is present wherever God is. It is God’s love, God’s mercy, God’s grace, mediated through Jesus and His Atonement, that saves. And it is freely available – you do not have to jump through any denominational hoops to have access to it.
It looks like Burbank.
He said Heaven, not the other place.
unless it’s kanicbird’s understanding.
unless it’s kanicbird’s ways we are talking about.
through his prophet, kanicbird.
:dubious:
:rolleyes:
Ahhh, the irony!
Which of course is also not correct as the date when the Biblical canon was set - a quick glance through wikipedia isn’t helping much, though the (shaky-looking) biblical canon article seems to indicate it was more or less set by the mid-200s.
Perils of learning your church history from Dan Brown.
How would one go about finding something you don’t know and aren’t motivated to look for?
I am not aware of any passage in the New Testament which provides very direct evidence that the category of People Who Have Never Heard somehow make it into heaven.
In general, the theme for salvation is to believe and behave. It’s not enough to just believe; *“You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder.” **James 2:19 **NIV *Nor is it enough to just behave. Briefly, works are neither sufficient nor absolutely required; they are a manifestation that belief has been embraced in such a way that one’s core nature is changed from a predisposition to sin without caring to a predisposition to try and behave (that’s my paraphrase of a lot of theology).
At the time of Christ, the preceding history was that of a chosen people versus everyone else. Christianity opened up a way of salvation to all–not just the Jews–but that way was still through Hearing the Word, Believing it, and Manifesting that Belief with a change in behaviour. The reason for the Great Commission to spread this good news was to save the lost; they wouldn’t be lost and need saving if it were simply sufficient to have Never Heard.
*“How, then, can people call on someone they have not believed? And how can they believe in someone they have not heard about? And how can they hear without someone preaching?” **Romans 10:14 *NIV
In short, the lost are lost, from a Scriptural standpoint.
Because this conflicts with our sense of fairness, there are many who believe that Jesus Christ’s redeeming work redeemed all mankind, or that those who never heard will not be condemned–it just doesn’t seem fair. You will not find direct support for that notion in the Bible, however, and will have to rely on drawing inferences from such passages as “In the same way, it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost.” Matthew 18:14 NIV
I might add that the whole concept of heaven and hell is a titchy bit vague, but that’s another story. With the exception of John’s Revelation (and he seems pretty far out on a limb) the constructs are a little vagueish.
In my opinion, huge chunks of Christian theology (omnibenevolence, I’m looking at you) is contructed to satisfy some desire on the part of the followers, be it for fairness, security, morality, or whatever. The ability to cherrypick passages that can be read to support your preferred beliefs is helpful but not strictly necessary.
All passages are cherry-picked. The Bible does not read as a coherent, internally-consistent text since it was written by so many people over such a long period.
I believe within the heart of each person is the desire for their creator. It may take years, or lifetimes (yes many lives IMHO), but the desire is there and will activate one day.
As for where to search it doesn’t matter, as long as you search as best as you know how. It’s God’s job to recognize that and lead you.
Well then it would be hard to seek the Lord with all your heart, may get some brownie points for trying.
I suggest looking within.
All you need to do is make that turn at Albuquerque.
But if you have no knowledge of what you search for, then essentially all you would have would be some sense that there is something missing from your life, I would guess - which isn’t very specific.
Well, it kind of does matter, since I believe you’ve posted in the past about the ability for people to be misled, either by other people, by organisations or philosophies, or by demons. And if you have no knowledge on what you’re looking for, you’re particularly susceptible to someone coming over and saying, “Here. This is what you’re after. Trust me.” As you yourself are doing now.
I would argue that it is impossible to seek something with all your heart - if you don’t understand what something is, you can’t ever have the entirety of your being on the hunt for it. Logically, if you’re hunting something you don’t know, you’re actually looking for something other than the actual thing. If I go looking for my keys, but I don’t know or only know a bit about what a key is, then the idea I have in my head, the parameters by which i’m searching, are going to be different.
My understanding is that you can’t get to heaven on roller skates 'cause you’d roll right by those pearly gates, you can’t get to heaven in a rocking chair 'cause a rocking chair won’t get you there, you can’t get to heaven in a limousine 'cause the Lord don’t sell no gasoline and you can’t get to heaven in a motorcar 'cause a motorcar won’t go that far.
Maybe there’s a bus…