Am i going to hell?

Great Debates
1

I’m not sure if this goes in great debates or not, but I am looking for some kind of specific information, a cite from the Bible or other book or person of religious significance.

I was brought up as a Roman Catholic but I now consider myself to be agnostic. Right now, I would have to say I’m leaning more towards the “God doesn’t exist” side. As I understand it, in the Chrisitan religion, if one believes in God and believes that Jesus is the son of God, along with not committing any mortal sins, then he can be pretty sure of salvation. At least, that is what I was taught as a child. On the other hand, the only thing that will guarantee eternal damnation is refusing to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God.

Here’s the thing. I want to believe in God. I mean, who wouldn’t like to believe that when they die they can be guaranteed eternal paradise? It’s a whole lot better than nothingness. However, there is a key difference between me wanting to believe in God and actually believing in God. I don’t think that I will ever be able to truly say that I believe in God. It’s just the way that my mind works. I’ve been taught to question everything, and not to accept things without some kind of evidence. I mean, I can say that I believe in God, but I’ll know deep down inside that I don’t really, and He will know too.

So, my question is, does the fact that I was born with a logical mindset that refuses to accept things without evidence condemn me to eternal damnation? Is there some kind of clause in the Bible that covers this sort of thing, where somebody really and truly would like to believe but physically (or mentally or spiritually or however you want to look at it) can’t? Right now, I don’t think anything could convince me of a God short of Him revealing himself to me in some way. Should I be condemned to hell over something I can’t control?

2

Friend, you are straddling the fence. Which is kinda OK. By being agnostic, which is to say adopting the viewpoint that it is forever beyond man’s ability to truly know while on this mortal coil, you are not refusing to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. You’re just not convinced (and, apparently, somewhat skeptical). Of course, I’m atheist, so perhaps someone better acquainted with Catholicism can give you that church’s take on it a bit more reliably, since that seems to be your frame of reference.

BTW:

  • Welcome to the board
  • This is probably better suited to either the IMHO or GD forum
  • How’d you manage to start a thread and still have 0 posts?
3

You’re right, this is Great Debate material.

There are some Christians who would say that you have rejected Jesus and are damned.

There are some Christians who would say that you have failed to open yourself to the gift of Faith, have rejected Jesus, and are damned.

There are other Christians who would say that if Faith is a gift from God and you do not have it, then God will not condemn you for that.

(I don’t buy the “logical mind = can’t believe” dichotomy that you have created, but I’m not about to claim that I know the mind of God and condemn you. I do not personally believe that God goes around trying to play “gotcha!” in the hopes of damning the greatest number of people. If you do not have or have lost your faith and continue to live an ethical life, I suspect that God is not going to sit around chortling over the fact that he can damn you anyway, á la Jack Chick.)

4

*ag•nos•tic

Pronunciation: (ag-nos’tik), [key]
—n.

  1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
  2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study. *

So instead of going to Hell, you’re just going to Heck. :D:D

5

Aight, Blaise, here’s the dilly-o. Your G need not be a personal agent. Eternal consciousness and punishment or reward in said existence ain’t requisite. This unitard we live in ain’t necessarily dualistic. Try thinkin about the G in terms of “being itself,” something a little more pantheistic. Look at a design on a leaf, a cloud, the stars, a turd: that’s God. That’s being. What you’re asking is if you must adhere mot-for-mot to the ancient theistic traditional teachings of a nomadic people who couldn’t sit still and call fives on their land of milk and honey: nope said Baal.

Jesus was a good guy. Son of a patriarch who loiters outside the ninth sphere? Debatable. Too much like Leda’s craziness. But, somehow, I find it difficult to believe that one of the kindest, most benevolent people who ever lived would DAMN YOU TO ETERNAL SUFFERING just because you couldn’t believe that he was everything - every atom, every second, every wiggling little string and tenth dimension dust mote - incarnate.

You know Renee, up on the fourth floor, and how everyone said she was banging Bob? Well, that only happened allegedly two weeks ago. This ish went down two millenia ago. Small tidbits-huge details-the man’s entire freakin’ point-- have a way of getting changed around and mixed up.

The point of this base and incoherent rambling? NO. NO.

6

*ag•nos•tic

Pronunciation: (ag-nos’tik), [key]
—n.

  1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
  2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study. *

So instead of going to Hell, you’re just going to Heck. :D:D

7

*ag•nos•tic

Pronunciation: (ag-nos’tik), [key]
—n.

  1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
  2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study. *

So instead of going to Hell, you’re just going to Heck. :D:D

8

Aren’t the boards fun tonight?

Forget the 0 posts part; I’ve figured that out - the hamsters are behind in their filing.

(AWB triple posted! Nyah nyah nyah nyah nah nah!)

9

You’re looking in the wrong place. Just as you looked to your internal logical mindset in considering the question of the existence of God, you should look inside yourself to discover whether you are headed for hell.

I’m sure you were also taught as a child that God does exist. If you can question this central Christian teaching, you should also be able to question beliefs about the afterlife.

This is a good thing, but it doesn’t work for questions of faith. Remember that faith is belief without evidence. If you try to use logic and reason to resolve questions of theology you are doomed to failure.

What do you think? To me, the obvious answer is no, this makes no sense at all. As tomndebb said, God doesn’t play “gotcha” with people. But the bottom line is that you have to resolve these issues for yourself. If you truly don’t believe in God, then you have no reason to believe in hell (or heaven). And even if you’re unsure of God’s existence, you need to use your own mind, heart, and soul to determine your ultimate fate. You’ve already thrown away the rulebook. You can’t expect to pick it up now and find your answer there. But here’s a hint. Polycarp pointed out in another thread that the central concept of Christianity is love.

I’m not a person of religious significance, or even a Christian, but for what it’s worth, I do believe in God, and I do not believe that you are going to hell.

10

I’m banking on the “…those who earnestly seek…” loophole. I’ve got an inquisitive mind and I can accept a lot of possibilities, but before I accept something as truth, i gotta’ have some proof. Show me da’ money.

11

Belief in God takes faith, and this is not always an easy thing to do. Coming from a general Christian point of view (I try to stick with basic Biblical principles without denomination, or etc) I would say that you are facing the struggle that everyone faces, and is seen in the Bible.

All of us have struggled with searching for the truth, and at some points we may come to the point that we don’t know what to believe and we ask ourselves why we believe what we believe. And if I can quote Creed, we ask “What’s this life for.” I don’t know all the answers, very learned scholars don’t either, only God does. Job went throug great troubles, and for what? It was to build faith, and we will all come across times when we don’t know what to believe.

This brings to mind a quote: Everything is okay in the end, if everything is not okay, then its not the end.

But, we have been given a ‘study guide’ for this life from our Creator, and we have our lives to learn how it works.

What I am trying to say is that you are at a point where you need to reconsider your beliefs, and I would recommend searching your heart and reading the Bible from an objective perspective, ie taking a fresh look at the Bible and the world around you without any of the biases/influences that upbringing may have given you.

Readers, please note: Whether you are an agnostic, theist, or athiest, all of us have a “religion” - go look it up. We all have some system of values (internally or externally created) and some destination in mind whether it be righteousness or self-actualization. And, we all have faith whether we know (admit) it or not, faith is a belief in the unseen. By having some sort of an opinion, we think on some level that there may be a shread of truth to what we think - this act is a leap of faith. Even Camus did not have evidence enough that his life was the best possible because he did not excersise all his options, none of us can, so we live by faith that what we are doing is right.

Basically, I am not forcing a belief on anyone, I am presenting a challenge - to examine our lives and hearts, and to be honest, to think a bit and consider options, even if it is as far-fetched as the Bible may seem to some.

Faith takes effort, and belief in the Bible does not come easy, though it may be free to anyone. But, the effort required is something we all already have.

From a Biblical point of view, either you believe in the salvation through Christ or not, its like Bush said, either you are for him or with the enemy. But, if you ever truly believed in Jesus as a child, then you can never lose your salvation, and you will not go to hell. Once saved, always saved, it is a free gift as soon as you truly accept. Do not worry about hell, if you were truly saved, then this is just a time to discover yourself, and God will eventually give you peace.

12

Nivek8382, I know one denomination that stands behind people whose consciences lead them to beliefs such as yours.

The link below is purely informational. Unitarian Universalists do not proselytize.

http://www.mluuc.org/links.html

13

Isn’t there some tale about a guy (Thomas?) who refused to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead until he’d seen the holes in his hands and side? He wasn’t damned for eternity was he?

It seems to me that if there is a Christian God, then you’re safe. (All the Fundamentalists in heaven’s accountancy department will laugh at you though).

If there isn’t, then it doesn’t matter.

14

I’m Catholic.

As JepSnertRF pointed out, belief in God requires a Leap of Faith. If you’re looking for proof, you’ll never find it.

So why believe in God? Why practice a particular religion? There are a couple good, practical reasons to do so IMO, regardless of whether or not God actually exists:

  1. The fear of eternal damnation can help you make the “right” decision when confronted with a moral dilemma.
  2. The promise of “life after death” can help improve your attitude. I would probably have a rather “downer” attitude if I knew “this was it.”

So I “believe,” if for no other reason than it helps me be a person here on Earth. Of course, there’s also the “gambling” aspect: By believing in God, I have very little to lose, and a hell-of-a-lot to gain.

15

Off to Great Debates.

bibliophage
moderator GQ

16

Well, there’s the answr about where you’re going to!! :smiley:

In a more serious vein, rational doubt is not considered by most moral theologians to be a fault. You are expected to believe to the extent you can in good conscience do so, and to await God’s grace to resolve your doubts and strengthen your faith.

17

Nivek8382, do you read the Bible often?

18

Theists try to tell me to “look inside”, or “earnestly seek him with all your heart”. I try and nada. Then they tell me “you’re not sincerely trying” and to “let go and have faith”. Still nothing. Then they continue to blame me when God hasn’t shown himself to me. Apparently I’m still not trying hard enough.

Sheesh! What the heck am I supposed to do?

But, according to some theists, if you don’t believe, you’re SOL. So I tell ask them if they believe that Santa exists. They don’t, so I tell them to TRY to believe. Nothing? Keep trying and trying and trying… (ad nauseum)

19

I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell. I don’t believe in God or Satan. I generally follow the moral code of LaVey, though I don’t like to use the term Satanism as it brings up things that have nothing to do with LaVey’s moral codes. So for me if there is a God (I could be wrong about all this) and he chooses to punish me for not believing in him then I probably don’t want anything to do with such a vain and egotistical entity. I think you must look in your heart to find the answer to your question. Let no one tell you what is in your heart…only you can know for sure!
(Then again I might be in for an eternity of pain and suffering, on the good side I might get to meet Hitler and kick him in the nuts for being such a sick, evil, dick)

20

So you only behave in a (generally agreed upon) moral manner because you fear eternal damnation? Well, if that be the case, may you believe in your god forever and ever amen - and if you stop believing, let me know, so I can move far, far away from you.

You’re trolling, right? Admit it, Blaise.

Anyway - to the point - when Jesus was asked what one had to do to have eternal life, I believe the answer was to love the Lord your God with all your might and to love your neighbor as yourself. So, be as nice as you like to your neighbor, and if you don’t buy into the lovin’ the Lord part, you’ll be hanging out in hell with me. See you there!