I’ve heard that the long, complex forms are a type of test - specifically, a “Can you follow directions?” test like they give out in fourth grade. In other words, if you won’t or can’t fill out the form correctly, that supposedly tells the company that you’ll be a crappy worker who won’t or can’t do what he is told.
The engineer in me, of course, wants to say that some organization or agency should offer a credential or certificate in following directions that people could then show to employers. You go take the test for a few hours and get a certificate saying that you successfully filled in 50 pages of biographical data, consistently formatted names and phone numbers correctly according to the instructions (list first name, middle initial if any, last name, omit any additional middle names, generational titles, and honorific titles, so “Hubert William Francois Karlson-Rochambeau McElroy, III, MD, PhD, OSB, BLT, Esq.” gets listed as “Hubert W. McElroy”). Then you get your certificate that shows that you can follow directions and don’t need to take a direction-following exam any more.
It’s rather annoying to be in the “too much education, not enough experience” pile. Companies don’t want to hire you for a menial job because you, like, have a degree, but they won’t hire you for anything more complex because all those positions require experience. Arrgh! If you omit the degree from your resume, then you have to explain what you were doing during that time.
Probably the worst job search story I have is having an old manager call me up and ask me to apply for a job, since he wanted someone he knows is good.
So I go and fill out the exhausting form and then promptly fail their “personality” test. All I can figure is that I’m too willing to make decisions and take initiative than their HR people like.
So, despite being asked to apply by the job poster, with the implication that the job was mine, I didn’t get it because of some stupid personality test. That had to piss him off too… and doubly so, because I found out later that he also called another former co-worker with the same offer, who promptly failed the exact same test.
Nobody won; my old manager got neither of his preferred candidates, and neither of us got new, better jobs with a guy we know, respect and loved working for.
I just finished a job search phase (I start my new one next week) and it was mostly positive for me (I do wonder if I have just been lucky, or if there really is some fundamental difference in workplaces and recruitment between the US and UK)
I set up a new mailbox in my domain solely for the purpose of job applications - knowing that I would get spam - just because I put it on my CV, and my CV was out there more or less in public on various job search sites. Now I’m done, I have deleted the mailbox and the spam is gone (and the trickle of diehard recruiters who must have kept copies of my CV after I took it down).
I got a mountain of dumbass ‘improve your credit score’ spam, and during the search process, I did get a few very badly irrelevant contacts from recruiters (I work in IT, so why would anyone think I am the ideal candidate for their telemarketing opportunity?).
I got a couple of near-miss recruiter contacts (outside of my commute range, or not quite the right job profile).
In the end, I found the perfect match, through a recruitment agency, but I contacted them first when I saw the posting - and it really does seem like it is a great match; I couldn’t have written a more fitting job specification myself, and it’s right on my doorstep - reducing my hour-and-a-bit each way commute to 5 minutes.
So basically, we now perform an HR generalist job and fill in hundreds of fields on crappy online applications,that go nowhere if the one phrase they are searching for is not on your resume. We also have to set up pseudo accounts for each position, each following its own archaic user name and password conventions only to be rejected six weeks later via form letter.
Or, you contact a recruiter who essentially does nothing for you, except relay jobs that are already posted on Career Builder, who then proceeds to receive 30 percent of your salary for basically forwarding your resume.
I’ve been “on sabbatical” for eighteen months - homeschooling my son. He’s now reintegrated into high school and I’m looking. I didn’t start looking until August because I traveled this Summer.
And I really didn’t start seriously, because the kids were home - and because I don’t NEED to work this minute. I seriously started with the last week in September.
And it has been soul sucking. Applications that are completely redundant (couldn’t Taleo have a data aggregation service - load your resume up once and as long as its Taleo, it will find you when you apply for a job?) Jobs that obviously they have an internal candidate for (within eight hours of getting my resume “we have chosen another candidate”). Interviews that you go to where you walk out “why did they interview me?, they obviously had decided my resume wasn’t up to snuff before I even walked in.” Resumes you send off, the posting is still listed, but silence after three weeks. Too qualified for this, lacking the downright weird combination of attributes they have in their mythological wish list for that (that, of course, keeps hitting my in box - its a contract job that I’m 90% on, and if there is a 100% out there, its going to be the person who just left that job). Jobs where you are turned down because you didn’t have familiarity with ACME software - when having been an ACME engineer is the third bullet point on the resume.
At the end of the day, you can see your self worth draining away.
(I got a call tonight to expect an offer letter tomorrow).
I know what you all are talking about. I’ve been looking for a job for almost a year and I finally, FINALLY got word this week that I should expect an offer soon.
I’m pretty sure it was just a general statement describing the wonder that is job searching, since that’s essentially what happens. I doubt it was directed at either of us specifically
I will say I don’t TOTALLY hate recruiters since they gave me the job I have now, but the jury is still out if recruiters are fine, or if I just got lucky.
As a person that works in Family Court, I can agree that its probably worse than job searching. It’s kind of similar to it though, as far as having your worth as a person determined by an agency, being forced to drug screen and coming through at the end of it all feeling used.
To the OP: No, there is not, you’re right. Specifically, preparing job applications is excruciating for one’s soul. (The prior “searching for openings” phase at least has its pleasant moments, when you can imagine yourself living in Tuscany or wherever your idyllic location is, until reality hits in one way or another).
My experience of recruiters has been:
Lots of noisy irrelevant contacts by email, offering me jobs that are absurdly mismatched to my profile
A few phone calls from recruiters trying to persuade me to apply for something that in all honesty, was just beyond the fringes of an acceptable match
LOTS of fake job postings on job sites - presumably just to reel in a portfolio of clients for spamming.
And the recruiter who got me the job I start next week - I made first contact, but she worked very diligently throughout the whole process.
Except that you don’t even get a flush letter. More often than not, you never hear a single solitary word out of the company you applied with.
And the recruiters do negotiate on your behalf- that’s what that 30% is good for- they want to maximize your salary so that they get paid as well. And they perform an ostensibly good service to the company to winnow down the legions of knuckleheads out there into a handful of good, qualified candidates.
I personally don’t have a problem with recruiters, but unless I’m actually unemployed or really pissed off about work at the moment, I’m usually somewhat lackadaisical about dealing with them- unless they’re coming with a specific job and salary range, I don’t bother. If I’m between jobs, I look at the time spent with recruiters as part of my “job” of finding a real job, and the same with job applications.
I’ll also offer that in some 15 years in the job market (17 since college, but 2 off for grad school) and 4 real jobs, as well as 2 short-term contract positions, I’ve found 4 via recruiters, and 2 from the company themselves doing a job search. I have yet to have an unsolicited job application pan out. I kind of think that method of finding jobs is pretty much obsolete, at least for technology people.
I never even stopped working to go to school. I just have a bachelor’s in information sciences, which I understand is not super technical, but I didn’t have a degree before, and now I do. So I have no gap in my resume to explain, on the contrary, I am clearly a hard worker and a go-getter, going to school full time while working full time, maintaining a 3.7 GPA (Fucking Database Systems & Discrete Math).
And I’ve had OK experience with the recruiters, at least the ones that have called me back. The two actual interviews I’ve been on have both been through the recruiters.
I tried to apply for a position at my current employer so I don’t lose my years, but despite it being primarily a phone position there is no way it will ever ever ever be a remote position (Help desk!) And while I am willing to relocate, I am NOT relocating to White Plains, especially since they won’t be a dime for relocating.
Other than that no one has even called me. For about 50 resumes I got two interviews, which I guess is pretty good turnaround. One of them has already said I don’t have the experience. But I KNOW I could do the job, I am smart and learn fast! I just need a chance!
I did start applying with a new recruiter last night but got halfway through the application and stopped. The application is 17 pages long, wherein you painstakingly put in every bit of data, even though you’ve uploaded your resume. Fine. But then they want a 90 minute interview in the middle of the work day (10 am to 3 pm). I just can’t do it right now - my workplace has a big event coming up in two weeks and I can’t take time off unless it’s for an actual potential interview.
Still trying! I would love to be somewhere else by the end of the year! HAHAHA!
I’m glad you started this thread though Sir T-Cups. Good to commiserate with other folks.
HR people and recruiters are only marginally smarter than chimps, I think. If I make my resume chronological, they get confused because they don’t notice that I actually got grad degrees, and if I set education out separately, they get confused about what I did for those two years.
I haven’t found a way to put “I quit working from 2002-2004 to go to graduate school.” in my resume in a way that doesn’t confuse someone, without just putting a line at the top saying exactly that.
Just in case you’re really wondering, it’s because of fair hiring laws like Affirmative Action and such. They need to keep the application process somewhat uniform for all applicants. That way they can’t say they gave preferential treatment to the white guy w/ the polished looking resume over the black dude that didn’t have great resume writing skills.
Also, you’ve only been at your current job 3 months and you’re already looking at moving on? I get that it’s for a good reason but I can tell you that we’d toss your application on that point alone. I’m sure you’re reliable but all we can look at is your recent history and that’s a big red flag.
So then what am I supposed to do? You (not you you but YOU) don’t allow me a chance to talk to someone, you only give me a “reason for leaving job” space in the paper application, which I use to say “hey I’m moving to be with my beloved”. It’s an unfair process that punishes someone for things outside of their control.
The only reason I didn’t move down with her straight away was so that I could be at the job still and allow time on my resume. Not to mention it’s a contract job that has a 6 month limit
The fact that she got a job so soon after I took the job I have now
I’m apparently being overlooked because I’m wanting to change jobs so soon, but it’s out of my control/not my fault that she got a job away from me, but I’m apparently being punished for it because I look like a quitter or whatever