Which all reminds me of that old chestnut;
Q. What do you say to a woman with 2 black eyes?
A. Nothing. She’s already been told twice.
Competive hitting I have nothing against, whatever the gender. As long as they are willing participants, good luck to them. As for hitting in RL, I think controlled aggression can be a very useful force for good. It’s when the hitting is done with rage that problems arise.
This.
I think it’s okay to hit a woman if she’s into it. For some people, that’s foreplay. I don’t mean a punch to the jaw, but some slapping and spanking, some choking…some people are totally into that.
So, yeah: self-defense (or stopping a crime, etc), contact sports in which it’s encouraged, and mutually consensual BDSM are the only reasons I can think of for anybody to hit another person, regardless of gender.
Sometimes when the other person thinks that they can do extremely inappropriate things because you can’t possibly hit them, they need to be shown the error of their ways.
Most guys grow up knowing that there is a point at which they’ll get their ass handed to them. But some women use that “you can’t hit a woman” nonsense to act in ways that would get a man killed outright.
That being said, as I noted above, I’ve never done any such thing to anyone.
I have, however, caused a few people to think twice about their behavior by ACTING like I’m about to show them the error of their ways. They usually run or cower behind friends.
I think you’re misunderstanding.
If a woman provokes a fight with a man, and he has no choice but to fight back, and the police are called, more often than not it’s him that will get hauled away, and not her. In a just world, whoever started it and was being the threat should be the one to get arrested. The law often automatically assumes that it’s the man.
Is it okay for a woman to hit another woman?
I am a very peaceful, non-aggressive woman and I very rarely feel anger towards anyone. However, there are a very small number of occasions when I have felt that violence on my part, towards another woman, would have been acceptable. (These incidents follow the pattern of the examples of women’s unreasonable and violent behaviour that have been given here.)
Here is an example:
I have a neighbour whose kids are friends with my kids (3, 8 and 9). We take turns walking the kids home from school. Today there was some sort of issue among the kids on the walk home. The neighbour (the mother of the kids) came over to talk to me to sort it out. I opened the front door but didn’t invite her in. She hollered and yelled and screamed at me. My kids were both home and they were upset by this, the older ones hid and the younger one screamed. She entered my foyer and I asked her to leave. She refused, and kept screaming at me. I made my desire for her departure abundantly clear, and she ignored it.
Should my response to this situation depend on my gender? Even though nobody’s immediate safety was threatened, as a woman, I would use whatever force I needed to remove her from my home to stop her treating me so disrespectfully and frightening my kids. I’m pretty big and strong too: I expect I could take down most women in an even fight.
Note: this didn’t happen to me, but to a friend whose gender I will conceal for the moment. The friend physically grabbed the woman and shoved her out of the apartment. It was rough, because the woman was not cooperative.
Did the friend behave appropriately? Does your answer change depending on the gender of the friend?
Well, technically you would be arrested if you hit anyone. It’s called ‘assault & battery’.
I would submit that it is only ok to hit a woman as long as it’s hilareous!
It’s better if they wrestle, preferably with ripping of clothes.
Of course that’s appropriate. An Emotionally Disturbed Person (as the cops called them back home) trespassed in your home and refused to leave when you excercised your right to order them out. The homeowner (renter, whatever) pushed her out the door. She had no right to be there and there was a legitimate concern for safety, as any reasonable person would conceed that EDPs can suddenly become violent. Furthermore, once you are inside your home, there is nowhere left to retreat to, except perhaps the closet. If you escalated the confrontation by pummeling her, or shooting her, or chasing her down the street with a baseball bat, that would be a different story-proportionality and all.
I’d have probably told her I was going to call the police if she didn’t leave, then called the cops if she hung around, just to cover my ass. I’m guessing you might be legally allowed to use force to remove a trespasser, but why risk it?
The acceptable reasons for me hitting another person are self defense and defense of others. I don’t see how that changes based on gender. I also don’t see how “teaching someone a lesson” is appropriate; if someone’s yelling at you, you can leave, or call the police, or ignore it. It’s not your place to teach them a lesson; that’s why we live in a society with laws and a structure in place to handle disputes.
Yeah, that’s what I was talking about. You might be allowed to hit someone in self-defense (I don’t know about the legalities of that), but if you’re a man hitting a woman in self-defense, be prepared to be the one arrested.
Hitting people, men or women, without consent is wrong, except:
In defense of life or limb, including prevention of assault, rape, or kidnapping (self or others).
In defense of property. Proportionally-you shouldn’t break an arm to stop someone from stealing a six pack of Bud.
To eject an uncooperative person from private property. Again, proportionally-a shove or just carrying them out the door.
To keep your own pre-rational children from hurting themselves or others. If they don’t obey sane commands or reasoning by the time they are in grade school, it’s too damn late and beatings won’t help.
There’s a some anachronistic macho BS mythology floating around in here. Men tend to be bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than women, but there’s wide variation with a lot of overlap. In modern western societies, it is not surprising for either sex to display any conceivable behavior or attitude, including those that would have shocked and amazed our forebears. It is laughable to suggest that modern-day men (the vast majority of whom were last in a fight while they were minors) have some internal governor that regulates their punching force to the appropriate level, solely because they are men.
Certainly, some men and women fight a lot. It is reasonable to assume that such people would know how to pull their punches, so as to merely cause pain but not real injury. However, I do not believe they often choose to do so. In my experience with hot-blooded, fight-prone folks, there’s usually alcohol or other drugs involved when they commence to clobberin’, which throws out any fine control over the intensity of beating. Further, I have seen some, and heard of many, instances of completely sober people reacting to perceived assholishness with shooting, stabbing, biting off appendages, throwing from windows, running over with automobiles, and the breaking of bones.
The biggest pitfall of a social order which condones the dispensing of corporal punishment by individuals without due process is that it concentrates power in the hands of the most bellicose, not the most capable or rational. The modern world (the good part at least) is built on the recognition of innate human rights, including the right to speech. Considering that, except in rare cases, words cannot injure; what justification can there be for arbitrary punishment for speech? If you want the ease and security of modern life, you have to put up with annoying and offensive people.
As for people who tempt fate by deliberately insulting or arguing with those bigger or more violent than themselves- So What? While it may be stupid and reckless to say things that are likely to result in an ass-kicking, it does not excuse the ass-kicker from their responsibilty to act like an adult by responding with words, or walking away, or ignoring it altogether. The aggressor is always at fault, regardless of how much the other party was asking for it.
But what do I know? I’m a mean-spirited, thin-wristed, weedy little man. Maybe I only talk this way because I haven’t been taught a lesson by an upright, square-jawed defender of an imaginary, outdated code of conduct. I cannot categorically rule out that I might yet see the light if a real man were to slap me around, lightly, as he would a recalcitrant woman.
Nah, fuck that, I’m staying in the 21st century where we keep antisocial crap like this in check. Feel free to move out to the sticks and live out the fantasy of the days of old, when the weak knew better than to speak ill of their betters and everybody shat in a hole in the ground.
Marmot, let me ask you this: is there a point that another person can reach with you where they’ve violated your dignity as a man? Are there actions that represent such a challenge to your masculinity that you have to respond? If the answer is ‘no’ then you’re either a saint or a complete pushover. If the answer is ‘yes’, isn’t it conceivable that a woman could mount such a challenge?
Everyone cites “self defense” as acceptable. If a woman were to attack a man, without any type of dangerous weapon, and the man fought back, would that really be self defense? Wouldn’t it really be answering the challenge to your masculinity?
I’m sorry, but I don’t see my code of conduct as either imaginary or outdated. I know it’s not popular to work the way I do, but I could give a shit less what someone else thinks of my code of conduct. I comport myself as I was taught a man should, and in my mind sometimes that includes a poke in the jaw. Words as well as actions sometimes have consequences beyond the expectations of the person doing them, but ignorance of things like respect, honor, and boundarys is no excuse.
I don’t pick on the weak or take advantage of the small, but I don’t allow myself to be treated as weak and small either. I tend to try to talk things out and let bygones be bygones, but there is a line in life that no one should ever cross. Different people have different lines, but just because a few have real short lines doesn’t mean that conducting yourself with strength is barbaric or outdated. I’m sorry that anyone feels that way, but I do have a line and it will not be crossed.
I’ve never yet raised my hand to a woman, but I won’t say that I never will. That’s just the way it goes. And when people say that they would react with violence if the situation were just right, who are you kidding? Most of you don’t have the stomach for it and would be glad to have one of us square jawed types around to do the heavy lifting for you.
Let me answer that. I do not suffer to let others lay hands on me in anger or to intimidate me. Man or woman, if you raise a hand to strike me or try to grab me, I will retaliate with however much force is required to make you stop.
If we lived in a magic fairy land where it was impossible for people to hurt each other worse than a stinging red temporary mark, I would say that I have seen some women unleash such a cruel, searing, belittling, taunting, inflammatory stream of verbal provocation that a ringing bitch-slap is the only valid response. But in reality, a man will always be able to escalate violence farther than the woman with little risk to himself, so that can never be an acceptable response.
When I hear some of the cruel, unretractable things that people say to each other sometimes, I seriously think they’d be better off getting into a slapping match instead. Yeesh.
This is beyond ridiculous. MOIDALIZE, please go spend some time with actual female members of the human race, and when come back, bring facts.
Yes, I have seen women get in a fist fight - girls, if you will. Eighth graders who were so ferocious, they had to be held apart by a security guard who outweighed the two of them by at least fifty pounds, topped them by a good six inches, and still had to struggle to keep them separated.
Girls in fights mercilessly pummel and yank hair because - and pay attention here - they know exactly how much it hurts. They are trying to hurt the other person, and they have no qualms about using nails, pulling hair, gouging eyes, and other barroom brawl tactics, because it is not an ego or “honor” trip. They are out to do damage.
Women are just as able to predict consequences as men are. For instance, I predict that the consequence of my posting in reply to you means that you will post more idiotic drivel about the half of the human race you know very, very little about.
That makes me very sad. No child should have to endure random violence from a parent under the excuse of discipline. The saddest part, to me, is that instead of realizing that what was done to you was wrong, you would rather see that misery inflicted on more children.
Please.
Try harder, Buttercup. The Internet has magnificent resources, such as online dictionaries, which define the words you have such a difficult time with. They even include examples of the word in context. I’m sure with enough time and effort, you’ll be able to read for comprehension and respond appropriately.
Sad? Are you kidding me? Number 1, I don’t need your pity. Number 2, in my house you were expected to abide by a certain code of conduct. If you didn’t conform, you got corrected. There’s nothing “random” about that. My parents worked hard and didn’t always have the energy to be patient or bargain with me or coddle me into a spoiled state. Number 3, I never expressed my desire that misery be inflicted on children. My desire is that future generations could be taught fundamental concepts of respect for others and responsibility. If that lesson has to be taught by force, so be it. Better than bargaining with another overprivileged, overindulged, soft little sociopath.