Is there even the tiniest shred of veracity to the claims of the anti-vax nutters?

[Zulema]

@Smeghead

To be scrupulously fair, it is theoretically possible to inherit a genetic predisposition to some condition that is triggered by exposure to some aspect of the environment.

I was going to post a similar thought. I know a family that has had a lot of pretty severe reactions to vaccines among their children and cousins. None of them are autistic though.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@Jackmannii

<snip> aborted fetuses, monkey parts<snip>

Only the finest vaccines have the proper concentration of aborted fetuses and monkey parts.

[AntiCoyote]

It’s funny 'cause when I was a child, I saw first hand things like polio. How many people now, now of anyone with polio. I knew people who had it. It was common to have outbreaks of measles, mumps, scarlet fever, I had diphtheria.

But to this day I’ve never met anyone with autism. Well at least not anyone I know.

So when people don’t see the good vaccines do, they forget.

[Little_Nemo]

@thelabdude

In general I think society is in retreat from accepting science. Science has shot itself in the foot because too much of it has been been influenced by somebody’s personal agenda.

While we can disagree about climate change, I think we must accept that somebody is lying. Who?

Smart money’s on the people who aren’t scientists.

[thelabdude]

@AntiCoyote

It’s funny 'cause when I was a child, I saw first hand things like polio. How many people now, now of anyone with polio. I knew people who had it. It was common to have outbreaks of measles, mumps, scarlet fever, I had diphtheria.

But to this day I’ve never met anyone with autism. Well at least not anyone I know.

So when people don’t see the good vaccines do, they forget.

The tricky thing is choosing the level of vaccinations such that we aren’t losing more people do to bad reactions than the disease. Discontinuing the small pox vaccination likely was a good idea. In general, vaccinations are highly safe and highly effective.

[Jackmannii]

@Cat_Whisperer

Only the finest vaccines have the proper concentration of aborted fetuses and monkey parts.

You laugh (you laugh!), but have you considered the horrors of vaccines riddled with *diseased dead African green monkey liver parts??? Hmmmm???*

The guy who authored this article (who runs a fairly popular alternative health website) has connected the dots to show that vaccination is supporting animal abuse (growing virus for vaccine production in animal cell lines in a test tube is animal abuse, doncha know), monstrous crimes against indigenous peoples, the underage sex trade and a sinister depopulation plan undertaken by our very own government.**

Does anyone believe that people who spread these tales are going to care about veracity?

What we can do is marginalize the crazy, keep it from damaging public health and stop the diversion of precious research dollars from the effort to find genuine ways of preventing and treating autism.

**I’ve struggled with this issue of the great conspiracy of vaccinators to depopulate the world on behalf of Big Pharma, but I still don’t understand how eliminating people who would otherwise buy pharmaceuticals increases profits for Big Pharma. :dubious::eek:

[Speaker_for_the_Dead]

@thelabdude

In general I think society is in retreat from accepting science. Science has shot itself in the foot because too much of it has been been influenced by somebody’s personal agenda.

While we can disagree about climate change, I think we must accept that somebody is lying. Who?

I’m reading Allan Brandt’s The Cigarette Century, and a small part of his argument is that this originated in the tobacco industry’s decades-long efforts to create artificial controversy regarding the harms of smoking.

[thelabdude]

@Jackmannii

Does anyone believe that people who spread these tales are going to care about veracity?

:

I have spent much more time in forums discussing pet food. I think some of the participants there truly believe Nestle and P&G are evil companies filling our dog food with toxins, road kill, euthanized pets, sawdust, useless fillers, etc. Our food too. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the people from http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/ are posting what they believe in forums on vaccines. It is the truth to them.

While Andrew Wakefield knew his study was false, and had an agenda, I think many people citing it, believe it.

[Freudian_Slit]

@thelabdude

Who needs facts? Same thing in the dog world. See Dr. Dodds and http://www.thedogplace.org/VACCINES/Rabies-Update-Lawsuit-0705.asp I haven’t seen anything on autism in dogs, just charges of high rates of serious reactions. Yes, there are reactions, even deaths. However, any reaction is rare, and most of them are mild. With a new puppy every year, a vet that goes beyond the AVMA guidelines, I have my dogs vaccinated much more than many people. I have never seen any reaction at all, Now I am thinking about starting a thread ranting about generalizing from limited personal experience, but my experience is compatible with the published data Dr. Dodds questions.

Can dogs have autism? Apart from any vaccine issues, has a dog ever been diagnosed with it?

[thelabdude]

I have never heard of it. I went to a source I consider reliable, www.avma.org and did a search on dog +autism. It turned up one reference to research into the cause of autism. The full article isn’t available without a AVMA membership number.

It is possible there have been references to it in ravings I didn’t bother to read.

[No_umlaut_for_U]

@Jackmannii

Cellphone use has been increasing in recent decades.
A lot of different drugs, household chemicals, plastics, flooring materials* and pesticides have seen increasing use in recent decades.
Ultraviolet light exposure has increased in recent decades.

The list goes on and on. But vaccines have been a favorite target for some - again because some parents notice autistic symptoms developing in their kids not long after some vaccines are given (a counter to this is that experts have demonstrated the capability to detect subtle indicators of future autism long before it becomes apparent to parents).

It wouldn’t be anywhere near as bad if people latched on to, say, use of a pesticide as a causative factor for autism. We could likely do just fine without that pesticide. Vaccines are another story.

*yes, there’s actually been a paper tentatively linking autism to vinyl flooring.

What about self serve gasoline? Since the 1970s, people in 48 states have been filling their own tanks, often spilling the gas all over their hands, then buckling lil snookums back up again after the pit stop. :dubious:
However, I believe it’s a change in diagnostics.