While I generally agree with you, the example the MrDibble supplied was clearly racist.
Sorry, yes, messed up the linking. “past” was supposed to link to the UA party and “record” was supposed to link to this UCSD one.
And it’s not just Blacks, they target other minorities too.
Nevermind, Mrdibble answered better than I did.
THAT is the heart of this issue. Would this party be a cartoonish parody, like blackface minstrel shows or an Indian football mascot, or are these guys actually into hip-hop and black culture and legitimately enjoying it in a respectful way? At this point in history, the latter is possible. I would be skeptical about the latter choice at a frat party, but it’s possible.
I MUST decide whether someone has stolen the word when I decide whether to use it. In other words, the choice isn’t entirely mine.
Who does it belong to then?
I reject the idea that I have no power to influence how words are used, or how my words are understood. I don’t believe it’s below my pay grade.
Nobody’s answered the real question.
Why is Pi Kappa Alpha referred to as PIKE and not PIKA?
The English language belongs to all speakers of English, collectively, if it belongs to anyone.
There is no person who has authority over what any word of English means.
All I can say, I guess, is good luck with that!
True, but A doesn’t necessarily mean B either, and that’s what I think several of us are trying to get at.
If hip-hop culture involves wearing grills, gold chains, pants hanging off your ass, and a certain amount of thuggery, that’s all well and good. The problem comes in because the music happens to be predominantly black, at least in terms of the performers and intended audience.
Where it gets sticky is when someone tries to do something involving A, and inadvertently invokes B, even if it’s unintentional.
I mean, why shouldn’t a young white kid be able to be Lil’ Jon for Halloween? It’s NO different ultimately than a black girl wanting to dress up like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry. It’s not that the kid wants to poke fun at black culture, it’s that he likes Lil’ Jon’s music. Yet people would lose their shit in an insane way if this happened… at the boy, but not at the girl, even if it came with a blonde wig and everything. I’ll guarantee you that you’ll probably see dozens of black Elsas out and about if you look, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s apparently taboo for a whlte person to go as a black character, due to some combination of thin skin and paranoia, apparently.
Agreed. But I’m one of them.
And, of course, some speakers of English can be more persuasive than others. I hope to be one of them.
Glad you agree. So nobody is above anyone else’s “paygrade.”
Thanks. I’m aware that it’s not easy.
They’re fratboys, not Pokemon?
Yes, and I believe that the lines between A and B are blurring as black and white culture become less distinct. Especially among young people. I think there’s a generation gap at work too - young people who have no racist intent go out and use words or do things that older people would never do because of the racial connotations.
That is not implied by what I said.
I said that no individual has authority over the language.
This means that if any individual tries to exercise authority over the language, then that individual is acting above his paygrade.
Now to another logical point:
When I originally mentioned paygrade, it had nothing to do with who owns the language, rather, it had to do with who has the power (i.e. actual, physical capability) to do what.
It’s literally impossible. Not logically impossible–you could do it with logically consistent superpowers. But in the real world, it’s not possible. Your efforts will have not a tiny effect, but zero effect, on the fact that billions of speakers of English will be uncharitable in their interpretation of what others have said. This means that any plan of action that begins with an assumption like “I can make a difference as to whether billions of speakers of English will interpret others uncharitably” is a bad plan of action.
The better plan of action is to change the thing you can change–your own language.
Unless the white kid dressing as Lil Jon is wearing blackface, I don’t think anyone would find it objectionable.
At least one recent former Mayor of Dallas was Jewish. Dallas is certainly not New York, but it’s not exactly nothing but J.R.s. Amongst other things they have lots of transplanted Northerners.
Are people still trying to pretend “thug” is not just code for “black”? seriously? of course it is racist, it is blatantly and openly racist. It’s a “let’s make fun of those stupid black people and the stupid way they dress and act” party, how can anyone defend that?
Seriously? You think a white kid dressed like this, not in blackface or anything, wouldn’t cause a colossal shitstorm?
Where I’m from thug means criminal. I haven’t received my latest copy of “Code Words for Minorities” yet though.
Funny thing is an Obama mask is racist, a Hillary mask is sexist yet a Palin or Bush mask is progressive.
I don’t know if “respectful” comes into play, or should. I liken it it a Disco-themed party. People dial certain aspects of the disco craze and have fun with it.
I hope so because LIL John and Lil Wayne and many of the southern rappers cause shit storms themselves. People seem to think older black people approve of those clowns.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a hip-hop themed party, no matter the group that wants to have it. It’s just how to present it and things like that that sometimes become problematic or insensitive, in my view. But it’s pretty easy to avoid these problems, I think.