Is this Apple's Last Best Chance...MacMini $500

[pulykamell]

@Loopydude

Well, it needs to be worth more than that, I’m afraid. OS10.3.x needs pretty much all of that 256Mb of RAM just to run. The idea of editing video on a 1.25GHz G4 with no L3 cache and 256Megs is almost painful. You’ll need an extra 256Mb of RAM at very least, but that’s pretty much wasting the one RAM slot. The next option seems to be to put a full gig in there, which will set you back almost the price of the unit itself. Plus, you need the SuperDrive to burn DVDs, and that’s another $100 (easily worth it, though). Absolute minimum for what you want is another $200 or so.

This isn’t hardcore video editing we’re talking. What I need is an intuitive drag-and-drop application that will let me set up a slideshow sequence, program transition, put in background music, and create DVD menus. I’m not interested in editing full motion video. The product that most closely fulfils my needs on the PC platform is ProShow Gold 2.0. But that leaves much to be desired. The menus aren’t customizeable enough, there’s an annoying ProShow Gold logo intro, and the fonts are cheesy as all get-out. iMovie is absurdly easy and flexible. Adobe Premiere also gives me the flexibility I need, but is WAYYYYY too powerful and complicated for an application like this. It took me hours to design a slideshow movie on Premiere and it takes me minutes on iMovie.

I don’t think I’d need much more than 512M of RAM for something like this. Just for ease of use I’m willing to pay a premium. Alternatively, if you know of any PC programs that accomplish what I want them to accomplish, please do share. I’ve been hunting for awhile now and I can’t find any program on the PC platform that satisfies me.

[merge]

@squeegee

What LoopyDude said.

I also note that the very lowest end display to be had in the Apple Store is a 20" LCD panel for $1k. Apple couldn’t have rebranded some kitsch 17" model for the Mini?

I agree here, Apple really should have a 17" Monitor, but this computer seems to be aimed at people who own a display, keyboard and mouse.

[Graycat]

Apple is now offering through its online store a 17" Toshiba CRT specifically for use with the Mac Mini. No Apple branded cheap display, though.

[holmes]

@Loopydude

Well, it needs to be worth more than that, I’m afraid. OS10.3.x needs pretty much all of that 256Mb of RAM just to run. The idea of editing video on a 1.25GHz G4 with no L3 cache and 256Megs is almost painful. You’ll need an extra 256Mb of RAM at very least, but that’s pretty much wasting the one RAM slot. The next option seems to be to put a full gig in there, which will set you back almost the price of the unit itself. Plus, you need the SuperDrive to burn DVDs, and that’s another $100 (easily worth it, though). Absolute minimum for what you want is another $200 or so.

The RAM is going to be a non-issue, IF you buy mail order. I promise, that MacMall and the others will offer FREE RAM upgrades (bringing the RAM to 512) for a ‘modest’ service fee and charge going price or less for a full gig. I’m would also bet, that they will offer great rebates on keyboard/mouse combos as well.

The only real problem will be the lack of a monitor and that I think will be lessened by three factors, one will be reductions in price for 15-17" crt, old monitors sitting around or switches and, and this is where my mind is, I finally have an excuse to buy a LCD panel. My old Radius monitor gets handed down, and I get an LCD.

So I think in reality for me, the minimum will be the $599 model, if you avoid the Apple store. Any extra money would be on the new LCD panel, which I would’ve purchased sooner or later anyway.

[Wrath]

Apple kicks ass.

[holmes]

@pulykamell

I don’t think I’d need much more than 512M of RAM for something like this. Just for ease of use I’m willing to pay a premium. Alternatively, if you know of any PC programs that accomplish what I want them to accomplish, please do share. I’ve been hunting for awhile now and I can’t find any program on the PC platform that satisfies me.

The RAM is for the OS itself, not to run the programs. Like XP, OSX really seems to need at least 512 megs of RAM to work ‘well’, relatively speaking of course. Which is why Apple gets a bit of heat, perhaps unfairly; when they release systems based on the ‘minimum’ requirements, when they know that the real minimum is twice as much. I noticed a big different in response, when I upgraded to a full gig; but that was in the Jag days and OSX has come a long way since them.

You expect a ‘cheap’ PC to cut corners, but I always felt that if Apple’s charging a premium for their hardware, they should at least have enough memory installed. I shouldn’t have to ever touch the machine, unless i wanted to; not because i needed to…especially out of the box.

[Loopydude]

I was fooling with the MacMall site, but I can’t seem to configure a system as I would want. I assume (though I can’t see it on their website) they can BTO the Airport, BlueTooth, and SuperDrive, plus you can get a 1gig RAM upgrade for about $300-$350…they’re also offering to throw in a keyboard and mouse, but that’s a “meh” addition, as stated repeatedly above. Seems, optimistically, you can get an ideal 1.25 GHz MacMini for about $1100. MacMall will give you 512Mb RAM for free, so if you want to go bare-bones, you can get the base unit with a usable amount of RAM for five hundred bucks. Throw in a cheap 15" LCD (seems you can get one from Acer for about $200)…or, use that sad little CRT from your old PII PC that Gateway gave you for almost nothing…dangle the iLife carrot…

Hmmmm.

O.K. You don’t really care about games, and you don’t want to use your Mac to surf the internet wireless. You don’t care about burning DVDs. Wireless Bluetooth devices do not excite you. You just want to make some short movie clips, fool with Garageband, maybe…well, if such a consumer exists, sure. I’d never buy it, so configured, but maybe some people would.

As to performance: The more I look at the Mini, the more I think “iBook, repackaged”. Here is a comparison of Powerbooks (which have a much better GPU than the iBook or the MacMini) and some Wintel laptops. The results do not bode well. The Pentium 4M ought to be roughly similar in performance to a desktop CPU. That means, cycle for cycle, when looking at the CPU-render test, the G4 may have even less power than the P4 (which, now that I think of it, may not be so strange, not having a fast FSB or hyperthreading technology). A 2.8GHz P4 system from Dell can be had for $499, with 512Mb RAM, same size HD, CD-R/DVD, free 15" flat-panel display, and will probably be, for most, if not all CPU-intensive tasks, well more than twice as fast as the 1.25 GHz Mac Mini. With a $100 GPU upgrade, it would absolutely dominate the Mini in the Graphics arena as well.

OK, why should anyone switch to this? Is iLife really that much of a draw?

[SuperNelson]

I see the Mini as an add-on for Windows users, not a replacement. How many times have you heard someone say they have a Mac as their primary machine, yet keep an old/cheap Windows machine around for compatibility with one essential program or another? This is designed for that purpose, only backwards. The home user who primarily uses Windows can now, for $500 and the price of a KVM switch, add a Mac to their home. It’s built very, very small, so it won’t even take up a noticable amount of space; in fact, it’s just the right size to sit on top of a full-size tower like a peripheral. Apple’s hoping that some percentage of the Windows users who are sitting on the fence will try this, and eventually realize that they hardly ever use the Windows machine.

Another possibility is to put it in the kitchen one of those LCD displays that has a built in TV tuner.

I also am curious to see how it would look hooked up to my 42" plasma TV.

[holmes]

I think the mall order companies are waiting for Apple to ship these in volume, which is why the pickings are slim right now. I would wait a month or two, just to see what rebates are going to shake lose. I would really be surprised if there’s no free RAM upgrade in the offering.

OK, why should anyone switch to this? Is iLife really that much of a draw?

Remember with Apple you get all the tools you need to work out of the box. Not only ilife, but you get a full suite of office products as well, i.e. Appleworks. You get the security, you get the “it just works” as well. As opposed to getting XP home, you receive a full featured OS. I think you really need to compare the whole system including the software, to the $500 Dell for an acturate price/performance ratio.

This is not designed for the graphics pros in mind or people using CPU intensive tasks, but neither is a $500 Dell. Which is a better machine for making consumer generated media production, such as photo printing, burning cds, making DVD slides etc. I think Apple has software that is heads above any platform and it’s all included for the same $500, $600 if you go for the Superdrive.

Could the specs be better? Absolutely, but for the secondary pc market, I don’t think it makes a difference and I think, I’m typical user. It would sit in the living room and be used as an appliance, much like my Ubuntu is now, only now I have easy access to lots more software and hardware, without having to boot into XP. I would go wireless, though; it just makes sense. More sense than buying a Linspire machine from Walmart.

[Loopydude]

The reason Mac owners have the PC is because there are so many programs that are not available for the Mac. It would appear the primary draw for the PC user is the one package for the Mac you can’t get (most of, if you ignore iTunes) on the PC: iLife. So, essentially, iMovie and Garageband must be worth, at the absolute very least, about $500 to the PC user.

If this is true of a worthwhile number of people to launch the problem, great. If not, it’s the Cube of the low end.

[Loopydude]

bah, not problem (though I think it exists :D), “launch the product”.

[Wrath]

so many programs that are not available for the Mac.

There are actually very few programs out there that are PC-only. The ones that are are usually high-end, so the user isn’t likely to “keep a PC around”, it’s probably the major computer in the house.

Unless you’re talking about games. Then that puts the PC on the same level as a PS2.

[pulykamell]

@Loopydude

OK, why should anyone switch to this? Is iLife really that much of a draw?

For me, specifically, yes. However, I don’t think it would be for the average consumer.

[Loopydude]

@Wrath

There are actually very few programs out there that are PC-only.

I think, actually, the vast majority are,in fact, PC only. Any trip to CompUSA will allow you to see many shelves of examples. However, I would agree that most worthwhile or non-esoteric sorts of applications have at least one Mac version that allows the owner to do the same sort of useful things that PC users do. The major exception is indeed games, where virtually all of the big titles are either PC only, or can take anywhere from a few months to a little over a year to be released. As virtuall a non-gamer, I don’t care about that myself, and I have all the other stuff I want and need (Office, Photoshop, a panorama stitcher, some data and image analysis software, MacVector, etc.).

I’d must say I pay a premium for those things plus the Mac experience, though. That’s still true of the Mini. Hopefully enough PC users can be convinced by the lower price-point to give it a whirl, and increase Apple’s market share a little.

[rjung]

@Loopydude

I think, actually, the vast majority are,in fact, PC only. Any trip to CompUSA will allow you to see many shelves of examples.

Funny, when I go to my local computer store, all I see are aisles of Mac software. Of course, it is an Apple Store, so they may have a vested interest in selling to their primary audience…

Seriously, though, aside from early releases of new games and esoteric, “niche-business” software (do you know there are programs just to track patients’ payments for dental offices?), I can’t think of any mainstream software application category that doesn’t have capable titles on either platform.

As for the OP, if the geek feedback on Slashdot is any indication, the Mac Mini will sell like gangbusters – either as a low-cost addition to someone’s existing stable, or an entry-level “granny computer” for neophiles to do basic tasks without needing periodic maintenance.

And I have to ask, is this really a topic worthy of a “great debate”? More of an IMHO thing, if you ask me.

[Barbarian]

There’s one other thing about the MacMini which should appeal to users with low amounts of technical skills: No internet viruses, no need to run Ad Aware and Spybot, no need to worry about that stuff. My parents can barely handle doing the minimum necessary to keep their PC running, and I’m sure there are millions of North Americans like them.

[iamthewalrus_3]

@Loopydude

So, essentially, iMovie and Garageband must be worth, at the absolute very least, about $500 to the PC user.

If this is true of a worthwhile number of people to launch the problem, great. If not, it’s the Cube of the low end.

Don’t think of it as somebody shelling out $500 to have an additional Mac. I think most of the market will be people who were planning to buy a new computer anyway, and can now get a Mac because it’s more reasonably priced.

Plus, it just looks so cool.

[UncleRojelio]

@squeegee

I can see why the stock dropped $4+ today.

Yes, but considering that the stock has gone up about $40 in the last 6 months , it was already due for a correction. Its back up a buck today though. Gotta love those stock options!

[Wrath]

@Barbarian

No internet viruses, no need to run Ad Aware and Spybot, no need to worry about that stuff. My parents can barely handle doing the minimum necessary to keep their PC running, and I’m sure there are millions of North Americans like them.

I wonder if anyone could calculate the downtime loss in terms of money - downtime from viruses and installing and buying virus protection and spyware and firewalls. Add that to the cost of a PC and see how it compares to a Mac.

[UncleRojelio]

@Wrath

I wonder if anyone could calculate the downtime loss in terms of money - downtime from viruses and installing and buying virus protection and spyware and firewalls. Add that to the cost of a PC and see how it compares to a Mac.

The ENTIRE University of Texas System has to install the latest Windoze patch this week due to security problems. I don’t know how many systems that totals up to but, it has to cost some coin.

I’ve had 4 Macs running full time at my house for years. I have two kids and a wife that are on the net constantly downloading all kinds of crap, and opening tons of spam. I have yet to catch a single virus, trojan horse, or worm. YMMV