Is this evil parenting or good parenting? Or evil genius? (Using HabitRPG to gamify my son's chores)

In My Humble Opinion
1

So I think I’ve stumbled across a genius parenting win:

Last night my 4-year-old son brushed his teeth, washed his face, put his laundry away and then this morning he made his bed, washed his face, put his PJ’s away, and brushed his teeth before and after breakfast.

He did all these things immediately, enthusiastically, and with vigor. He even then bugged me for more chores to do, so I had him pick up his toys, which he again did so with enthusiasm, speed and focus.

Why?

He was earning gold to buy his dude a helmet in HabitRPG

Habit RPG is an awesome app that takes your life and gamifies it into an RPG. You earn XP and gold for getting things done, maintaining good habits, etc. I use it myself - it’s great.

So basically I’m feeling like a parenting genius, but is this wrong what I’m doing?

Like as long as I keep it to simple “do chores and you’ll earn gold” stuff and not “love Jesus or you’ll lose HP” manipulation, and as long as I don’t use this to turn my child into a child laborer it’s cool right?

The other issue would be that I am using meaningless in-game stuff to motivate him, but I have that covered because he earns real-world rewards (a trip to Jumping Jiminy’s, going out for ice cream, even money for his piggy bank) for doing his “chores” too.

I mean ultimately it’s no different from a chore chart to earn rewards, just presented differently right?

FYI, check out Habit RPG. IT IS AWESOME.

2

That’s what I was going to say until I saw that you had already said it.

I might try this with our son. We’ve done rewards charts but he loses interest because it’s boring. A checkmark isn’t very satisfying and there’s no incentive to get every checkmark (if 50 checkmarks gets you a reward you can skip brushing your teeth and you’ll still get 50 checkmarks eventually, just slightly slower). I think he would be much more into getting points in a game than getting checkmarks and it might keep him on track.

3

Sounds brilliant to me.

4

Me too.

5

Sounds like a knockoff of Chore Wars, which has been around a while.

If it works, go crazy. :slight_smile:

6

It’s good parenting, for a child of this age. Obviously there’s an age at which it should be understood that chores are just something that need to be done as part of being a family. I don’t know precisely what that age is, but it’s older than four.

Man, I thought we were doing well to get our pre-schoolers to put their cars and marbles away by rolling them down wrapping paper tubes. This app makes us look like we suck.

7

Actually I think yours might be better because you’ve managed to make the actual job fun, no carrot needed.

8

I think it’s awesome.

The “gamification” aspect could even be something you could talk about with him (if not now, then maybe when he’s a little older): the idea that even if there are things you can’t control about the world around you (like the need to do chores or homework because your parents and teachers tell you to), you still have control over how you think about them, and you can find ways to make them fun, even above taking pride in doing them for the family’s sake.

9

Actually, I think this is brilliant at ANY age!!!:smiley:

10

Cool.

11

Can’t you get a magic user to cast detect alignment to find out?

12

My only problem with it is the same problem I would have with a chore chart. You do ultimately want to instill in your child an innate satisfaction for doing something, instead of an external reward. Gamification of any kind (including chore charts) is great in the short term, but it should never be a stopping point.

One needs only look at Stack Exchange to see that Gamification can have downsides, like the fact that it is nearly impossible for a new knowledgeable user to make headway. The same gamification that brought a bunch of knowledgeable people now discourages new blood who otherwise might be happy to help.

That’s the exact same problem you may face in the future–a decrease in motivation towards those things that do not have a game-based reward. Or, worse, a feeling of being manipulated and bribed that can cause defensiveness. Both happened to me on the above site.

But, if you do it right, I think it’ll be fine. Treat it exactly how you would treat the chart, not an end game but a learning tool that you will graduate off of. Ultimately the child needs to learn to create his own internal rewards.

13

I don’t know about you, but there are a lot of chores that don’t exactly trigger innate satisfaction. Relief maybe if the garbage is particularly stinky, but not really satisfaction.

I mean, I don’t feel like I’ve accomplished anything or am satisfied in the least when I mow the yard, take out the garbage or clean the toilets. They’re boring, mundane mindless tasks that have to be done, but they’re not satisfying to me in the least. I’d just as soon have a yard out of some dwarf grass that only grows 2" high, self-cleaning toilets, and an instant trash incinerator a-la some sci-fi stories I’ve read. I’d have that much more time to do stuff I care about and that doesn’t just take time away from better things.

That’s why they’re chores- nobody WANTS to do them- we do them out of obligation, recognition that they need to be done, or in anticipation of a reward. And in a younger child, the first two are either non existent or abstract so you have to go with the last option.

14

There are plenty of older folks and married couples who haven’t internalized this.

15

Just a quick update, we’re nearing a week into this and it’s working out beautifully. The lad is still enthusiastic and motivated. The game remains fun (for both of us).

I get what people are saying about how ideally he’ll internalize the idea of completing work to be its own intrinsic reward. I don’t really agree that “hard work completed is its own reward” (but that’s a whole other debate) and it is okay to focus mainly on tasks that pay off.

Even the “chores are just something to be done as part of a family” is still effort = reward. A clean house isn’t just its own reward, it can help keep you healthy. And putting your toys away in the right place means that you’ll be able to find them quickly when you want them. Being fit can get you laid (NOT something I am teaching at this juncture, just an example). And so forth…

My main goal with this is build his habits - not to make him expect a reward every time, but eventually I’m hoping he’ll wake up, get dressed, brush his teeth, wash his face etc because that’s just what he does :slight_smile: Then I can move the rewards up the chain.

But I don’t really mind if he’s motivated by getting results for himself. Frankly I want him to do things because of the expected outcome. Doing something “for its own sake” starts moving down the spectrum towards compulsive behavior.

Taken to extremes both sides would be wrong: on one hand you would have him refusing to do things unless there’s something in it for him… but on the other hand you would have him doing things for no reason other than it seems they “need” to be done, without thinking of outcomes. So I think this is working out pretty damn nicely :wink:

Viva Habit RPG!!!

16

I would disagree; I think you want get the kid in the habit of putting the toys away. No sense of satisfaction, because s/he’s hardly aware s/he’ doing it.

17

I love the fact that your 4yo son has already grasped the concept of ‘milking it’.

One of those teeth brushings wasn’t really necessary, was it? :slight_smile:

18

Actually that one was me:

But he is a bright lad, and definitely familiar with the concept of “milking it.” :slight_smile:

19

Throw the kid a fish for every chore he gets done. When this works reliably, throw him a fish for most chores done, but occasionally skipping one. Gradually, skip the fish for more and more chores (but always randomly chosen, so as to NOT be predictable) and eventually you’ll have the kid doing his chores for only the occasional fish.

This is real. It’s a standard practice among animal trainers called Random and Interrupted Reinforcement (R.I.R.), and it is generally successful in training the critters to do more work with less regular one-for-one rewards. According to some lines of thinking, it should work every bit as well with people. (Cases commonly mentioned, as extreme examples: Gambling and buying lottery tickets.)

Yes, animals can figure out “milking” too. At least if they are dolphins. This story came out of Marine World Africa USA (IIRC) many years ago when they were still in Redwood City: The dolphin pools tend to collect debris because of various litter that the jackass visitors throw into them. So they trained their dolphins to retrieve any miscellaneous junk they found and bring it to the trainers, for a fish of course. One of the pools had a deck overhanging the water, where the trainers stood as they conducted their shows.

One day, one of their dolphins brought a fragment of a brown paper bag. A few minutes later, another fragment. A few minutes later, yet another fragment. By and by, the trainers began to wonder where all these brown paper fragment were coming from. One trainer jumped in the water to have a look. It turned out, the dolphin had found a large paper bag, and had hidden it underneath the deck, and was tearing pieces out of it to trade for fish one piece at a time.

20

or chocolate. that’ll work too.