Ashtura - I think you’re right. Trump truly doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong. Con jobs and crooked deals are just a part of doing business for him. Always has been.
Assuming he got Russia’s help screwing with the election. Well, that’s just fine because it got him elected. And that’s the best outcome, so all is good.
Obviously I have quite a different opinion about the above.
Nixon also refused to resign until he had a (drunken) long dark night of the soul after being told his only choice was between walking out and being thrown out.
The key players weren’t Nixon and Kissinger, but the party leaders who formed the delegation that told him so. Do such people exist today?
If I bump this thread to point out how very wrong the predictions of impeachment were, I’ll be accused of gloating.
Right?
But if I merely point out they’re wrong now, then my statement has little probative weight.
Right?
I already know that those people predicting impeachment have pious principles forbidding their choosing to risk any tangible personal stakes on the outcome.
So this is simply another thread in which people share their hopes, but don’t wish to be reminded about the facts, either now or later.
Too bad there’s no forum more appropriate for that kind of pointless, mundane exercise.
While I didn’t make any such prediction (other than noting that it was a far more likely outcome for Trump than anyone else), it should be pointed out that you’re anywhere from 2 to 6 years early to be making this statement with any authority.
Kenn Starr spent three years investigating Clinton before issuing his report and he wasn’t impeached for another year after that point. We wouldn’t expect an impeachment until Mueller issues some sort of report, and likely it would still take some time after that to accrue mass.
And, given that you are a lawyer, I feel like you’re probably pretty well aware that it’s a bit silly to announce someone exonerated, knowing that the case is still under investigation, let alone reached the stage at which it would be judged.
Obviously, it could well be that Trump passes through everything without issue, that Mueller exonerates him, etc. But even if so, I would maintain that this post was pretty poorly considered.
If you gloat, it is gloating. Next time you are tempted, try just basking quietly in the warm sensation of being right.
As much or as little as anyone’s. I also think this will not lead to Trump’s ouster. Without doing a head count, my impression is most in this thread don’t think this will lead to his ouster. So you’re sitting comfortably with the majority. Doesn’t it feel good to be part of the hive mind :)?
I’d say this is another hopeful thread with people discussing whether there is much factual support for that hope. The consensus answer appears to be “no”.
ETA: By the way, while I don’t think this latest news will in any way lead to Trump’s ouster without more damning evidence, I make no particular predictions about a possible House impeachment. The one could happen without the other.
No. No “party leaders” of the Republican persuasion are going to tell trump to resign until 67 senators are lined up solid to impeach him. And that won’t happen without the base’s approval, which in this age is not likely to happen because of Trump’s 24/7 VERY popular propaganda arm. Political suicide.
And since when does Trump care about what other people say anyway?
It’s a prediction. If it happens (ha!) that I am wrong, I’ll bump it and eat crow, as I have in the past.
But I have noticed that while I do that, most people here don’t. That’s fair enough, I suppose; I don’t think people have some positive obligation to bump their own errors and announce them. But I have noticed that when the the past error is brought to light by me, then rather than forthrightly acknowledge the mistake, scorn is heaped on me for things like not having a life, not letting things go, having to be right all the time, and other criticisms that conceal the original wrong prediction in a flurry of distractions.
In other words, I am standing by what i say. I argue that this thread, like so many others, will not only be forgotten when its predictions fail to materialize, but any attempt to remind the people who made the predictions of their failure will be met with reactions other than acceptance of their error.
Well, feel free to come back in a couple of years and demonstrate that the above is factual. Until then, your prediction is pretty much worthless.
I will.
And will you also come back to rebut the people who excoriate me then for not having a life, and not letting things go?
Not necessarily. If the Democrats in the House present good evidence to the public of Trump committing serious crimes and then the Republicans in the Senate simply refuse to remove him from office on the basis that he’s a fellow Republican, it will be the Republicans who pay the price in 2020.
It could actually *strengthen *their support among the base, driven as they are by simple tribalism rather than patriotism.
The opinion article I enjoyed today described the unindicted co-conspirator in the white house. I think that is a far more profitable approach than calling for impeachment (at best, a crazy long shot w/ little or no chance of success.) Moreover, impeachment would leave us w/ president Pence. Man, it really is tough to figure out whether Trump or Pence would be worse. I lived in IN for a while when Pence was governor. That fucker is CRAZY!
The best approach would be to keep up the constant pressure on all of Trump’s lackeys. See what the Mueller probe uncovers, but also pursue independent lawsuits. Keep up the drumbeat that Trump is a proven liar, who seems to surround himself with an astounding number of criminals, and tar Pence by association. The fish rots from the head. Use that message to make gains in the upcoming midterms, in state and local votes nationwide, and in 2020.
Well, in all honesty, probably not. I’ve seen a lot of annoyed comments about you over the years, but I have to confess I haven’t noticed any great frequency of accusations that you don’t have a life. OTOH, you do seem to have quite the habit of not letting things go. Then there’s the incessant argument by accusation of hypocrisy, which I personally find cheap and tiresome.
Well, that’s probably too harsh. Let’s say maybe, subject to the caveat that I happen to agree with you on what constitutes “excoriation”.
See you in 2020 (if I remember)!
I think I’ve mentioned it before somewhere else but
"Is this finally the series of events that will end Trump’s (aspiration/candidacy/presidency)"
has been asked too often and always ended up in the negative. Seeking something that will be the silver bullet that takes Trump down has repeatedly failed and should nto be counted upon.
I agree with those who say the goal should not be “Impeachment Now!!!” as that would only place everyone in hard defensive positions. Rather first do all the digging and investigationg and muckraking necessary to make a case against his reelection and IF a big enough crime shows up, then think about it. And that means REALLY make a case. This is not 1998 when people could imagine that if you grabbed on to some lying under oath and wrapped it in a sex scandal it would be trivial to take Clinton down, and it ended up taking Gingrich down instead – this is Trump and the GOP “base” are *proud *of having a shameless amoral leader. The GOP Representatives and Senators, forever scared witless of being primaried from the Right, will not go along no matter what, because they know Trump and his allies will do a political “I go down, YOU go down and so what if the world burns”.
How so? I hadn’t heard anything about him until the election.
David Pecker, head of the Enquirer, has been granted immunity by federal prosecutors.
You don’t remember the blow up after the ‘religious freedom’ Law? The pizza place that wouldn’t cater a same sex marriage? The Indiana travel bans from blue state governments?
It all seems so long ago. But, it was a black eye on Indiana. Indianapolis is the home of the NCAA as well as a big convention city.
At the time, IN seemed to jump on the most extreme “carry your papers if brown-skinned” type of laws. Every time Arpaio or someone in the SW came up w/ some crazy law, IN would jump on board. I believe there was a proposal that aborted fetuses be given funerals or somesuch. And school funding was decimated.
Sorry my memory Oof only 5-8 yrs ago) is not that strong, but he was beating the drum at the head of what impressed me an an awfully bigoted red state (other than it’s blue NW corner).
[Beavis and Butthead/] heh-heh. You said peckerhead [\Beavis and Butthead]
This and the Cohen deal are important. There was a conspiracy to pay money for the purpose of influencing the election. This plus the obstruction of justice should be enough to put the nail in his coffin and/or the garlic spear through his heart.
**Is this finally it? Is this finally the series of events that will end Trump’s presidency? **
The “series of events” that will finally end Trump’s presidency is called the next presidential election. The persistent, almost delusional, idea of overturning the last election is taking its toll, and not on Trump. Focus on the next elections, both mid-terms and presidential, and maybe he won’t get a second term. Right now I do not see a viable Democratic candidate.
“It’s the economy, stupid” made famous by the very smart Bill Clinton. The current trending of the Democratic Party toward more socialism during a booming economy shows little indication that Trump will lose his next election. Listen to Bill and come up with a candidate, and a platform, that doesn’t include every liberal pipe dream.
Everything else is fluff, feathers, and misdirection. Impeachment is a waste of time, energy, and the patience of the voters. Oooh, ooh, this might be it is not a productive use of time.