Is this finally it? Is this finally the series of events that will end Trump's presidency?

And… he’s gone. He didn’t last long.

Too bad you don’t mean the so-called president.

No. There is no way republicans impeach Trump or hold him accountable no matter what crimes he committed.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if Mueller has Trump under sealed indictment, and once Trump steps down from president in 2021 or 2025 (yes, Americans are that stupid), then he may get prosecuted.

What if he commits the unforgiveable sin of hurting the re-election chances?

I think history will split the difference and Trump will have a massive coronary. He’s thin-skinned and takes the mildest of criticisms as if they are vile, dire attacks. At some point someone is going to remind him how much he wants to bang his own daughter and in a fit of faux outrage he will shit himself and die.

I mean that is if there is any justice in this world.

I think history will split the difference and Trump will have a massive coronary. He’s thin-skinned and takes the mildest of criticisms as if they are vile, dire attacks. At some point someone is going to remind him how much he wants to bang his own daughter and in a fit of faux outrage he will shit himself and die.

I mean that is if there is any justice in this world.

You’re assuming that he’s “looking for” anything other than the truth. And “collusion” is not a crime so why would he be looking for that? Maybe the word you’re looking for is “conspiracy”.

Crime networks are taken down by prosecuting small fry for their crimes and flipping them, so that they will rat on their superiors.

I’m reasonably sure that you are aware of that, and have seen the word “flip” in the media over the last two years, so why are you making this asinine statement?

Trump himself used the word ‘flip’ a couple of days ago:

“For 30, 40 years I’ve been watching flippers. Everything’s wonderful and then they get 10 years in jail and they – they flip on whoever the next highest one is, or as high as you can go.” – Trump
NYT on Trump and his connections with Mafia culture:

With a Vocabulary From ‘Goodfellas,’ Trump Evokes His Native New York

Good luck with that.

And he used “rat”. As one talking head said recently (paraphrased): That’s right out of a 1950s James Cagney movie. Next, he’s going to talk about some “dame”. :slight_smile:

Tax evasion. No chance Trump is going to fall prey to that charge, right? This whole “Russia thing” is nothing compared to what Trump might face for tax evasion charges. If I were Mueller, I’d wait until Trump is out of office so there is no chance he could pardon himself and screw up the works.

The Democrats really, really, REALLY need to win in 2020.

Hey, didn’t Trump say repeatedly that he couldn’t show his tax forms because they were being audited by the IRS? And surely if the IRS were auditing his forms so thoroughly that it took literally years to go through them, they would have noticed any shenanigans, right?

I suppose one alternative is that Trump was lying about the auditing…naw, that’s impossible.

Keep in mind that the grants of immunity can be a one-sided affair and it’s not a clear cut indication that the witness has flipped.

Scenario- an accountant is questioned by the Feds regarding his client’s bookkeeping. He invokes his 5th amendment rights against self-incrimination. The federal prosecutors respond with “We are giving you immunity. Tell us what you know.” While this is an indication that the accountant made the decision not to lie on behalf of his client, it doesn’t necessarily signal full cooperation.

I think there might be a point where the cumulative weight of the evidence can’t reasonably be ignored. I don’t think we’re close to that point yet, though.

Without inside information, an audit probably wouldn’t have revealed the kind of tax fraud Trump and Cohen committed.

An audit might look at Trump’s deductions for legal expenses. They may have asked for corroborating invoices. But in the absence of a reason to believe that the Cohen invoices were fraudulent - the invoices Cohen fabricated would probably have passed muster.

An audit can find expenses that were improperly classified. The auditors may even check the underlying proof of the expenses, especially if they were deemed excessive. But a routine audit isn’t going to catch a well-executed fraud unless the auditor knows exactly what they are looking for and where to look. Which they do now.

If I had to choose between an IRS audit and an FBI investigation, I would need about a microsecond to pick the IRS audit.

Not that either one would cause me much trouble, personally, but you don’t want the FBI investigating you.

I have a feeling that whatever “brings him down,” it’ll be because he’s under so much stress that he finally alienates everyone in any real position to be a useful ally, other than a segment of voters.

The closest the IRS would say that he was lying was that them auditing taxes would not be a reason not to disclose them, that there was no rule about that.

I disagree. I see getting Trump out of power as a much higher priority than punishing him for any crimes he’s committed. I’d be willing to give him a full pardon in exchange for his resignation. (Although Trump being Trump, I wouldn’t give him the pardon until after the resignation was official.)

And then renege on the pardon.
Other foot, meet shoe.

:smiley:

Pardon him for federal crimes and turn all the evidence over to the states.

They need to be careful. New York state apparently has a law that says that once jeopardy has attached at the federal level the state cannot retry them at the state level for the same crime (the intent being to prevent double jeopardy). I’m not sure if that’s for the same charge or the same act.

It’s possible that other states may have similar laws.

I assume that Mueller is aware of all of that and knows what he’s doing.