I agree that what you did was one perfectly okay option, especially as it doesn’t sound like you were angry or rageful when you did it. There are also other perfectly okay options*. It’s probably best if you and your wife have a talk now, when no one’s screaming and no one’s stressed, going over your options and labeling them 1. This is a dealbreaker, 2. This isn’t my preference, but I get it won’t cause harm or 3. This is the way I’d like to see it happen.
Dealbreakers should be out, not because you have to agree it’s terrible to the kid, but because you love and respect your child’s other parent (I assume).
3’s should be the first life of defense, obviously. 2’s to be employed when 3 isn’t working.
So first step is to find out if this is a 1 or 2 from your wife. Next step is to find some 3’s in common.
*Options may depend on the kid as much as your ideas about child rearing. In this situation, I’ve successfully used the muzzle technique, the remove them from the situation technique, the remove everyone else from the situation technique, the time-out technique, the distract them with something shiny technique, the counting technique, the warnings of dire consequences if you’re not on your best behavior technique, the bribery technique, the quiet request technique, The Look and, most amusingly, the I-can-shriek-louder-than-you technique - all depending on the age and temperament of the child.
My assumption was based on the following quoted line from your OP, plus the fact that this thread appeared to be an attempt to gather ammo to support your side of your argument with your wife:
Glad to hear you already worked it out, though. Not sure, in that case, what the purpose of this thread is.
At her age, tell her the rules, like, “No shoes on the couch” or “No screaming in the house,” and remember the fine art of distraction, to make it instantly happen. Little kids are amazingly easy to distract, except at the terrible age of 3.5. Just quickly give her something else to focus on, and you forestall any battles or time outs. In those screamy phases, I’ve had luck with wobbling my hand on their mouth to turn the angry scream into something silly sounding. Giggling ensues. Situation defused. Ears saved.
I have a deep, instinctive reaction against a man covering a child or woman’s mouth. It feels scary and aggressive, even though YOU mean no harm. Maybe that was your wife’s feeling.
So, ok, “outside” doesn’t work in this situation. So find another option - maybe go into the bathroom.
I don’t think a child of two cannot make the connection between cause and effect strongly enough to match actions with consequences that happen 30 minutes later. I believe you have at most a couple of minutes to make the punishment fit the crime or there is no point to it at all – your actions will be perceived as arbitrary.
Well, you could go all Nicky Santoro on her and slap her face hard over and over again, punctuating it with shouts of “YEAH? YOU LIKE THAT? YOU WANT SOME MORE OF THAT? HUH? DO YOU? HUH?” until you stun her into submission. Then threaten to dump her in the river if she ever pulls crap like that again.
What? Why are you looking at me like that?
I keed, I keed. It sounds like you handled things fine.
IANAparent. However I have watched some of those parenting programmes where an alleged expert tells you how to raise your kids. (I can hear all the parents killing themselves laughing at me thinking I have a contribution on that basis, but hey.)
One thing they recommended, and it did seem to work, and I have seen real parents doing it with some apparent success also, was that if you were out and about and had no “time out space”, just go to another area than where they were being annoying, sit down with the child on your lap or on the ground in front of you, and hold them closely (so they can’t get away) but with no interaction. Explain that this is time out, but then don’t speak to them, don’t answer them if they speak to you, don’t make eye contact, pay no attention to anything they do until the time has passed. One friend I spoke to said that she had actually taken to using this as time out at home too, because in normal time out, the kid is free to move around her room, play with her toys, etc, whereas with this, they’re just restrained and have no input for two minutes. Her kid is now five, and pretty well behaved!
Yep, works pretty well for some kids. With my kid, at 4, her “time-out” has to be in the middle of the room, standing stock still. With any sort of thing around her, my arms or a Time Out rug or chair or even a wall, it becomes something she can engage with and ignore me with all her might (seriously, she makes ignoring a battle of who can ignore harder), which is not conducive to good training!
It’s important, IMO, that she understands in your words and demeanor that she is being removed and you are not happy with her behavior. I would think if you firmly sit her down (or put her on your lap as has been mentioned) and make sure she knows you mean business she shouldn’t be running off to play. If she gets up, then you go get her and silently put her back where she was. I’m talking here about a quiet, firm, assertive display of authority. I think she’s got to know, without question, that you are the boss and she will get no reward, especially negative reward, from you when she acts this way. See what I’m sayin?
This is a good suggestion, especially since the OP is saying that he has no car and his daughter enjoys going outside so that is not an effective punishment.
Snowboarder Bo, you do this to your cats? How do you hold them still without getting mauled?
It’s not that hard. I’m 6’4" and 205#. I can palm a basketball and still pick up the newspaper. The key is leverage. Don’t allow the cat any leverage, and they sit there all sulky and make that pitiful little mewling growl that annoyed cats make. After 5 minutes (which is an eternity to a trapped cat), I put them down. NEVER let them jump down or away, ALWAYS be the alpha who ends the situation.
Now, I’m not saying I haven’t been clawed ever, but I could count on one hand the number of scratches that even required a rinsing. Of course, I’m also very good with cats and it’s rare that I have to do this. In fact, I don’t think that Lucky ever needed that, and my new love, Heidi has yet to transgress so severely that it was warranted.
There are other ways to train cats, and I’ve found that any unpleasant physical contact, to a cat, can lead to an aversion to all physical contact. It’s a last resort for multiple transgressions only, but when handled (haha! get it?) correctly, it can be very effective.
So far time-outs in her room are effective. Basically I just use them as a cooling off period. As soon as she stops screaming she can come out. Usually by that time the behavior has ended. She hits Mommy, though she doesn’t hit Daddy. So if she gets a time-out for hitting she goes right back in for another time-out. Thus far she hasn’t gotten to the, “Time-outs are no big deal I have my toys!”, phase so creating a specific space isn’t yet warranted. Really the worst thing she does is that shrieking. She basically listens to me when I tell her to get down off of something she is climbing on that she shouldn’t. She loves climbing into the bathroom sink and pulling things out of the medicine cabinet. Usually there is a focus, and after a while she becomes aware of the boundaries related to a particular objects and stops trying to mess with them. No more drawing on things that aren’t paper. She knows she can write on her own books as much as she wants, but not Mommy and Daddy’s books. Overall she’s a pretty responsive child, it’s just these inconvenient moment shenanigans that are tough to deal with.
MsWhatsit I won the argument with my wife, she came around and agreed with me after I had posted this.
Well, I’m certainly not a parenting expert (other than raising 3 of my own), but I call BS to this. Ignoring your kid might be fine and dandy when in the privacy of your home and car, but I consider it inexcusable when it means others are going to e subjected to your kid’s shreiking.
The OP’s friend’s roomies were present in their home. So do you propose that they ought to have left their home (or at least that room) because this stranger’s kid was having a temper tantrum?
I clearly remember one time I took my kids downtown on the train. On the way home one of them threw a fit. When she did not quiet down immediately I took her into the vestibule so the other passengers would not be subjected to it, and when she continued I covered her mouth. I’ve made my share of mistakes raising my kids, but I sure don’t consider that to be one of them.
Yeah, there is the position that imposing discipline in such situations gives them the attention they desire. But on the flipside, I think that at a quite age kids can learn that there are repercussions to their actions - whether good or bad.
I noticed you conveniently clipped the rest of my post that said that if they throw such a fit in a public place, you should remove them to another location. :dubious:
I “conveniently clipped” that potrtion of your post because that is not what you posted. Instead, you suggested placing them in your car I thought did not adequately address the countless situations in which you may not have your car available. Sorry I read what you wrote rather than what you may have intended. :rolleyes:
And talk about giving the kid attention! In your proposal you allow the kid to remove you from where you want to be. Seems to me that in at least some instances simply covering their mouth and continuing as tho they did not exist would be more effective.
No, they’re judging you because you’re allowing your child to scream in public. Ignoring can be an effective technique, but that doesn’t mean people aren’t *also *obligated (if they want to be the least bit considerate of others) to follow through on the last part of your suggestion and remove the child someplace private.
Different emphasis, IMO. My impression of Pyper’s post was that these ignorant people are poo-pooing your obviously superior child-rearing technique, whereas I believe that there’s a distinction between using the same technique in public and removing the child to some place where they won’t disturb anyone first.
I think “I don’t have a car!” is a pretty flimsy excuse. I suggested putting the child in a car, but I think it’s pretty obvious that that suggestion can be extrapolated into “take them to a different area.” In your own anecdote, in fact, that is exactly what you did with your misbehaving child in a public place.
Wordlessly removing a child is not giving that child attention, from a child’s point of view. You are thinking from an adult’s point of view: oh this child has inconvenienced me, they got what they wanted. A child seeks verbal or physical attention- moving from one place to another is not going to satisfy that demand.
I think we basically agree except for the covering the mouth issue. I’m not in any way saying that this is some sort of abuse. It’s just that with many children, it feeds into attention-seeking and will intensify or prolong the behavior and will increase the likelihood of that child using screaming as an attention-getter in the future. If a parent has a child like mswas’s daughter who frequently screams, the parent should be aware that trying to muffle them physically can be in fact worsening this behavior and they should try other strategies. If your child had one meltdown, you covered their mouth, and they never did it again, more power to you.
Oh she doesn’t ‘frequently’ scream. It’s more of a phase that’s come up in the past month or so and she does it a few times a day depending on whether or not she’s getting her way. It’s not like every five minutes.