That might make some sense; though I’d still like to see an answer from @Wesley_Clark.
My response to a question about whether I know any trans people (other than online) would be “I don’t know. If I do, they haven’t told me that they are.”
@Mijin’s post said “real risks”, though. So I’ll rephrase it: what “real risks”?
Not in all contexts. (And, for that matter, not quite all people.)
If they’re not intending or hoping to have sex with me, I see no need for them to tell me at all. They can if they want, of course. But I don’t see why there’d be any requirement to do so.
I agree. Unless there is a romantic/sexual component to the relationship then there is zero requirement to discuss it. If the person wants to then fine but they do not have to if they do not want to.
Let me restate again that this was just me playing devil’s advocate for a moment. I have said many times over the years here, that the bathroom issue is purely a drummed-up fear by the right and there are zero examples of any abuse (…to my knowledge. And if there actually has been a case or two this doesn’t suddenly make it legitimate to be at the center of public discourse as a major issue).
And that I have used unisex toilets in multiple countries; it’s just a restroom, nobody cares.
The bit I’m being quoted and requoted on, was in the context of how we respond to women who say they are worried about this issue; whether we should be dismissive and whether they have anything real to be afraid of?
And my answer is: we shouldn’t be dismissive, although I would say to them much of what I said in my first paragraph.
And that, yeah, hypothetically there are risks, because America is full of dumb motherfuckers, as we’ve seen, and this issue has been politicized.
So even if it is already the case that a cisgender man can walk into a woman’s bathroom and not break any laws (at least the first time), if there’s even a perception that the rules have changed, I expect at least a handful of idiots being idiots; doing stunts or worse.
Are you sure that there won’t be?
Not being dismissive validates their claims and makes it look like you are agreeing with them. It’s falling for a standard right wing rhetorical trick, they rely on opponents being “polite” and taking their absurd claims seriously, which makes it look to third parties like they must be a reasonable position to take.
After all if it wasn’t reasonable then their opponents wouldn’t be taking it so seriously, right?
I’ve long wondered if the trans-phobes have really thought it out.
Imagine a trans-man who, by law, has to use a women’s bathroom because the law says they have to use the bathroom that is the gender they were at birth.
It’s make them unhappy and a target, which is exactly what the transphobes want. If it makes any women there unhappy that’s a bonus, they tend to hate women too. It’s all about hate.
I should clarify this bit:
I of course mean a (fake) trans man going into the women’s bathroom to oggle women, sexually assault them, or just show off to the women that (s)he still has male genitalia. No examples of any of this to my knowledge.
If by abuse we mean of trans women, including harassment, violence or sexual assault, there are of course, sadly, many examples.
Yes, if you meet someone who adopted a gender not on their birth certificate years ago, there’s a good chance you’d never know. And there’s really no reason you’d have to know unless you were very close to them. (I mean, i hear the random medical travails of a lot of my closer friends, too.)
I was kind of joking. I am part of a dance community that is very trans and non-binary friendly, and based on a college. Lots of young adults come out as trans or non-binary when they leave home. And honestly, just like a lot of gays and lesbians came out in the 80s, a lot of non-cis people are coming out now. So i am constantly needing to learn new names, and update mailing list entries.
Also, appreciation to Der Trihs who has also demonstrated a clear view and accurate understanding of the plight of trans women under the current political barrage.
But on the whole, this thread has been awfully objectifying, to the extent of edging into being part of the problem. I want to express praise for those who have shown compassionate and clear understanding of the subject: China Guy, Big T, LSL Guy, Banquet Bear, Puzzle Gal, and Der Trihs. In particular I want to boost the signal of post no. 87 here.
Are you saying that the real risk is that people objecting to trans people in bathrooms will disguise themselves as trans people and cause trouble?
Of course they haven’t thought it out.
In addition to the above issue (which I brought up earlier in the thread), I’ve never seen a thing about how they expect to enforce this. They seem to be assuming that everyone can tell cis from trans by a casual glance at them, which is bullshit.
Not only random medical travails, but various assorted worries. I wouldn’t be surprised if a close friend, or even an acquaintance, did tell me such a thing – I just meant that I wouldn’t feel it was something that they had to tell me.
I’m apparently screwing up somehow. If you want to (not required) it might be useful to me to tell me how.
I can believe that a few idiots would, without disguising themselves at all, cause trouble by walking into the wrong bathroom and insisting that nobody can stop them because gender is whatever you want it to be, or something like that.
Almost. I am saying that the real risk is MAGA idiots who aren’t trans exploiting this either to be jerks, or to make a point, or worse.
They don’t necessarily have to think it’s a bad idea to let trans use women’s restrooms, though of course most will have been radicalized. From what I can see, trans are the #1 target of hate right now on right-wing forums, twitter, etc.
Probably by taking the next step and declaring that since it can’t be told by sight who the “threat” is, the transgendered all need to be taken into custody in the name of public safety until some other solution is found. I’m sure they’ll have no issue coming up with a Final Solution to the problem.
No, you’re good; you haven’t said anything bad at all. I wish more people were like you.
Overall this thread is for analyzing the thought processes of transphobes, where trans people are the perpetual “other.” Only a few posts have empathized with what it’s like to live as a trans person under these circumstances. If yous could put yourselves in my place.
I wish more people were like you.