Is Using Intoxicants Immoral?

Great Debates
1

This is something I’ve been playing with thanks to a chance remark in a different thread. In the US, pretty much all intoxicants are illegal except for alcohol and tobacco, and I’m not sure how many people classify tobacco as an intoxicant. I’m not in favour of this, but I’m not a fan of drugs. I started trying to figure out where my attitude was coming from, and I came to the conclusion that I think using drugs is not immoral, just stupid.

Here are the reasons I can’t bring myself to consider using illegal drugs to be immoral. First, I’m not aware of any Scriptural prohibition against using them, although I’m not an expert on the Bible. Second, the reason I used the word “intoxicants” in the thread title is alcohol also alters the mind, yet it’s mentioned downright favorably in the Bible. Most notably, not only did Christ turn water into wine for his first recorded miracle, it was good wine! I can’t see a moral difference between alcohol and other intoxicants, although I know they have quite different effects. About the only grounds I could come up with for considering using drugs to be immoral is at some point they can take one’s focus away from God, but that’s true of all sorts of things. Also, when I drink consecrated wine at Communion, it’s part of a ceremony which increases my focus on God.

My arguments for stupid may not be as strong. Basically, I’ve seen people in the early stages of recovery from addiction, and it’s not pretty. I also remember a guy my boss and I were going to hire to pass out flyers on the street if he would stay off drugs for one week. He needed a job, and as far as we knew, no one else would hire him, but he couldn’t or wouldn’t stay clean. Every time I run a risk/benefit analysis on doing drugs, I simply can’t see the point.

So, my question for the Teeming Millions, or at least the GDers is do you think using illegal drugs is immoral? If so, is using alchohol also immoral? If not, what’s the difference? Oh, why not. Should street drugs (those which are currently illegal) continue to be illegal?

I’m looking forward to reading your replies.
CJ

2

Is drug use immoral? No. Drugs are just one of many ways to alter your state of mind, mood, and consciousness; drug use just happens to be a lot easier than meditation and exercise. It may be immoral to take drugs when your impairment will cause you to fail in your responsibilities, though.

Is alcohol use immoral? No, there’s no real distinction between “drugs” and alcohol.

Should illegal drugs remain illegal? Some probably should, but I’ll say that marijuana and psilocybin (mushrooms) shouldn’t be illegal. I’m hesitant to say “legalize everything” because of the addictive potential of some drugs.

3

To me, something is moral or immoral based on whether or not it harms others. (Since I don’t believe in God, issues of how something will affect one’s “relationship with God” don’t come into it for me.) I would say that simply using intoxicants is not, therefore, immoral. Drinking and driving, or in general any operation of a vehicle or machinery around others while intoxicated by any drug, is acting with gross negligence and putting others at risk of harm, so I’d say it is immoral. Using intoxicants may put you at risk for doing something immoral, and I don’t think being intoxicated relieves you of the responsiblity not to harm others. If you know in advance that an intoxicant is likely to reduce your inhibitions against harming others in some way, you have a moral duty to refrain. If you always beat up your wife or pick bar fights with strangers when you get drunk, don’t drink.

Using intoxicants may be unwise, to the extent it’s harmful to one’s health. Different drugs have different effects. Alcohol, in moderation, seems harmless and may even be beneficial. At the other end of the spectrum, sniffing glue is clearly a very bad idea. It might be said that unless you know there’s no one else in the whole world who would care if you died–and one hopes this is true of very few people–doing things which could harm yourself could have a moral dimension. Your parents, significant other, friends, etc. will presumably be sad if you were to kill yourself. In general, though, we don’t use considerations of the feelings of others to brand personally risky activities immoral; you can kill yourself skydiving or skiing, and for most of us that would make various people unhappy, but we probably wouldn’t say skydiving or skiing are morally wrong. Most intoxicants aren’t as stupid as sniffing inhalants, and so most of them are more along the lines of skydiving or skiing in that respect.

It’s not even clear to me if addiction makes something immoral as opposed to unwise. The harm of being addicted is still being done to yourself; of course, an addiction (whether to alcohol, nicotine, or heroin) may lead you to harm others. Also, many drugs are addictive (or habit forming) for some, but less so or not at all for others.

4

Is it immoral to use intoxicants? It is in my religion (Baha’i). Well, not so much use per se, as use to the point of intoxicatio. Our Holy Book says: “It is inadmissible that man, who hath been endowed with reason, should consume that which stealeth it away”.
IMHO, the major difference between alcohol and other drugs is a matter of intoxication. I don’t believe people who use drugs other than alcohol use them for any reason but to become intoxicated, whereas people will often drink, say, one beer, from which they derive no high, just because they like the taste of beer. I am one such person. Not to mention that my urologist suggests that I drink a beer every couple of days to keep my kidneys flushed (I’m prone to kidney stones).

However, my faiths injunction against intoxicants does not apply when such drugs are prescribed by a doctor for medical purposes (for instance, when such kidney stones do occur, I’m often prescribed strong pain killers that stone me right out of my head).

I know this doesn’t answer your question in regards to Christianity, just thought I’d toss in a different POV.

5

You kow, on reflection, I should add that just because it’s immoral for me, doesn’t imply that I think it’s immoral for everyone. I have chosen to follow this particular path, but have no more wish to inflict my choices on others than I would wish others to inflict their wishes on me.

6

Another view from Buddhist teachings -

It is basic in Buddhism to follow the Five Precepts, which include refraining from taking intoxicants because they tend to cloud the mind. You can not “get anywhere” without a clear and disciplined mind, in the Buddhist way of thinking.
Seems you are asking from a theistic point of view but like norinew I thought I would give a viewpoint from another philosophy.

7

My view is similar to those of norinew. Intoxicants cloud the mind and obscure thought. They can lead you to do things that would be completely inexcusable when sober.

I prefer to keep complete control over my faculties. I never know when I might need them.

8

CJ:

I agree with Buckner, above, that it is what you do after using any intoxicant that is the moral question, not the intoxicant per se. As for legalizing street drugs, I take a very libertarian stance on that. What someone does to their body is their own choice. If they commit a crime, throw the book at them. The negative affects of making drugs illegal are mind numbing. Who ever heard of someone being killed over the distribution of alcohol or tabacco? Not since prohibition.

9

If you’re interested in Biblical prohibitions, I can speak about Judaism. In Judaism, since man is created in the image of God, and man did not create his own body (it is a gift), one is not supposed to deface, harm, or otherwise permanently alter one’s own body. This is why, for instance, Jews are barred from receiving tattoos. You are supposed to take care of your body - one might even say treat it as if it were God’s own.

This makes intoxicants a tricky subject. I don’t know of anything making the intoxication itself wrong according to Judaism, but long term effects would certainly apply. On Purim, you are commanded to get so drunk that you cannot tell the difference between Mordecai (the hero) and Haman (the villain). Yet with frequent consumption of extreme amounts, alcohol can do permanent damage to the liver. Consuming enough alcohol to procure this effect knowing that it would cause permanent damage to one’s own body would be immoral according to Judaism. Certainly, this prohibition applies to other drugs as well. I don’t know about marijuana because the jury is still out on its long-term effects, but in this day and age it would certainly apply to frequent use of cigarettes (lung cancer), cocaine (damage to the nose), and heroin (tract marks). Additionally, since one is obligated to preserve life, anything one does for entertainment that results in one’s death is considered immoral under Judaism.

I don’t know how much of this applies to you personally, but take it for however much you feel it’s relevant.

10

Immoral, no? Stupid? Yes, sometimes.

:wink:

11

from a christian point of view

jesus likes us to get drunk at weddings…

on a more “out there” note, a new paper sugggests it is also possible that the annointing oil of the OT which contains “yellow flowers” and is known as “chrism” may contain hemp or cannabis, a plant which has been cultivated in the middle east for thousands of years.

the paper (can’t remember the title or authour, sorry) also suggests jesus was a stoner, but i’m not going to go that far!

12

Thanks! This really is an interesting discussion. I’ve had some exposure to other religions, so I’m especially interested in hearing their points of view.

Oh, and John Mace, you were the inspiration for this thread. My attitude toward drugs can best be summed up as legalize them, tax them, and use some of the taxes for rehabilitation and education, but politically, I tend to be more Libertarian than anything else.

CJ

13

So, my question for the Teeming Millions, or at least the GDers is do you think using illegal drugs is immoral? If so, is using alchohol also immoral? If not, what’s the difference? Oh, why not. Should street drugs (those which are currently illegal) continue to be illegal?

I would have to say no.
Not having any experience in altered states of mind nor the substances required to get ya there …I can only venture an opinion…The problem seems to me to lay with the individual. There are fellow citizens out there who seem nearly unable to withstand too long a stay in a realitive reality, and the use of intoxicants have become nearly medicinal to their overall mental stability…(at least until the screaming green squigglies start appearing in the middle of Aunt Jane’s violin recital) I mean people who are happy with the reality thrust upon them would have no desire to alter it…so obviously an individual who ain’t too keen with the world around him would continually seek escape from it. Why should that be considered immoral? Seems more of a societal and medical issue to me than one of morality, and society isn’t apt to change too soon, so medical approach seems the most sensible to me. It is easy to label a person weak or selfish because of their penchant to buzz away their blues, especially if there are children or safety issues effected, and you don’t suffer from the same boogers of the brain as they do. It is a quick fix only. And It is never an excuse for a guy getting behind the wheel of a car or likewise activity with any margin of inebriation. That is indeed a criminal act and should be treated as such. Addicts don’t make good parents, accountants or brain surgeons but hopelessly depressed shut-ins don’t neither. The negative health concerns are undeniable, but I feel the drain on community is greatly exaggerated by the illegality of it. The criminalization simply insures exorbitant prices and the subsequent involvment of truly criminal types. The major European countries have figured this out long ago, and their societies reflect the progressive benifits because of it. A lot of my friends and family have lost their lives and beings behind addiction in myriad forms, but the substance abuse was the prevelent symptom of their mental illness and not the direct cause. And as far as the moral or physically debilitating effect of alcohol over an opiate or mild hallucinogenic, I personally would prefere flying with an airline pilot who just smoked a joint or dropped of couple of percodans to a guy who just slammed 3 vodka shots with a beer chaser. Of course I would prefere a pilot as sober as a judge, but not many Shakers are flying planes these days.
.

14

I’ve never taken drugs to escape reality, but to mess with it. Hallucinogens have always been and probably shall ever remain my drugs of choice, though the time in which I have used any is approaching 5 years now.

MEBuckner, I think morality stretches further than just the consequences to other people. It at least needs to be able to choose among several choices which do not affect others when such situations arise. In this way, I think one could make a case against using drugs, much like mentioned above, because of their mind-altering affects.

But I don’t think that “clouded mind” is necessarily appropriate. While it is true, at least, that one on drugs has impaired reasoning, there are many things I’ve thought about while in a drug-induced state that I would never think about when sober, if only because everyday thinking had clouded my mind. I must admit I’ve only ever had one thing that would count as a “spiritual” experience, but that experience itself revolved around noticing how clouded my everyday thoughts were.

Sometimes using drugs is escapism; sometimes watching movies or reading books is escapism. Sometimes it is just fun. Does one need to take drugs to have a good time? In a general sense, no way; taking drugs is one form of having a good time. It is one form of having a good time that is also not universally appealing. Some people enjoy reality, as is said above, and others find that leaving it now and again is a worthwhile experience.

I live in my mind, more or less, and it is a fun place to explore. Sometimes it is a scary place, too. Philosophy, drugs, story-telling, and debating are several unequivalent paths I have taken to explore the mystery of me. What “truths” they reveal—if any—are distinct, and themselves not univerally applicable. And, again, sometimes it is just plain fun to laugh at every damn thing. :slight_smile:

John Mace, in fact bootleggers in America have their own violent networks that have recently been targeted by law enforcement agencies of all stripes. It doesn’t get the press play, but the legal restrictions on the production and distribution of alcohol are still such that it can be profitable to produce and distribute it illegally.

If you see a still in the woods in, say, North Carolina, get the hell out of there. Quick.

15

And I should add, I highly suspect that due to the increased taxation on cigarettes that criminal networks are already attempting to get in gear. As more and more states increase the taxes, more and more criminals will find it profitable to avoid the taxes on them, or simply steal them to sell well below legal price.

16

I had a Mormon friend who argued that Jesus actually turned water into grape juice. I can’t really imagine wedding guests being too upset because the grape juice ran out, though.

But, irishgirl, if that’s the incident you’re referring too, the gospels don’t say anything about anyone actually getting drunk. Jesus could have wanted everyone to just, you know, loosen up a little.

Proverbs contains several admonitions about drunkenness, but it’s debatable whether anything in Proverbs should be considered a commandment or more like advice.

17

Fang:

Very interesting about the Jewish tradition. I did not know, and would never have guessed about not altering your body. Makes me wonder where the circumcision deal came from. Any ideas on that and how it fits into the above concepts? But I guess when you’re God you get to make the rules and not worry about whether we humans find them logically consistent or not.

18

CJ:

Thanks for the acknowledgement. What was it that I said that inspired you to open this thread?

19

Erislover…I’ve never taken drugs to escape reality, but to mess with it. Hallucinogens have always been and probably shall ever remain my drugs of choice, though the time in which I have used any is approaching 5 years now.

I tend to forget, especially with all the hysteria associated with drug use, and the ensuing indoctrination from all the 12 step programs I’ve come to be associated with (but only as an observer…I swear!) that there are recreational users, plain and simple. My brother who attended college and Vietnam during the sixties is such an example. He was quite the Merry Prankster throughout his young man years, and then after the birth of his first child, easily distanced himself from anything more volatile than a couple of beers on the weekend. Unfortunantelly he had also mutated into a conservative of such a severe stripe that Rush Limbaugh would wince at the size of the stick up his butt…Sobriety kills! Its just the climate of political pandering that exaggerates any social concern, (including recreational drug use)
to scare up votes and keep any real discourse safely out of the public arena. Some people can’t handle intoxicants, but most can.
I wish I could, but then I can’t have a box of Twinkies within reach neither. One day at a time…Rand

20

On the other hand, you can get non-alcoholic beer if you just like the taste. And alcohol makes it harder to judge your own intoxication than other drugs… often, the guy who has a few beers and says “I’m sober, I can drive home” really shouldn’t be driving.