That’s your opinion. Many people would agree with you. But, the point of this thread is whether Martin Luther King would have agreed with you. The fact that you hold a certain opinion doesn’t prove that Dr. King would have held that opinion, were he alive today
Is it “Un-Kosher” to quote people who didn’t share your values to make a point you think is valid? Yeah, a bit, but the practice is not unique to affirmative action opponents.
Over the years, I’ve seen peaceniks quoting Dwight Eisenhower out of context many times, trying to make him sound like a pacifist.
I’ve seen latter-day leftists quoting Abraham Lincoln (a railroad lawyer and die-hard capitalist), trying to make him sound like a socialist.
Dishonest? A tad. But almost everyone is guilty of such appeals to authority. We’d all like to claim beloved figures for our side, even when we know they wouldn’t have been.
No, the point of the thread (which I’ve been cheerfully ignoring up until now, sorry) is whether it’s appropriate to quote dead men to support an agenda on which they never expressed direct opinion. The example of King is used because he is often quoted to either support or criticize Affirmative Action, a movement which didn’t really exist until after his death.
I’m with Apos in general… it’s inappropriate, and even a bit dishonest, to use the words of people who are dead (and so cannot disagree with you) to support your own agenda, especially when those words don’t actually speak to that agenda.
However, it’s also pretty common practice. I suspect that I’ve done it once or twice as well, such as quoting John Adams regarding the guilt of an “unnecessary war” in reference to the war in Iraq. The fact is that I don’t know whether Adams would have supported the war in Iraq or not, and it was dishonest of me to use his words to bolster my own position, even offhandedly.
The same goes in reverse, december, which is why it’s inappropriate in the first place. You recently quoted King in another thread in support of denouncing Affirmative Action. And yet, since he never spoke about Affirmative Action (it didn’t yet exist by that name, or in the form in which it exists today), you can’t say whether he would have supported it or not. If it was inappropriate of cowgirl to make her assertion, then it was equally inappropriate of you to do so.
Actually the concept of preferences for disadvantaged groups goes back to British colonial times in India, where there were preferences for Untouchables, called “positive discrimination”. When India became independent, preferences were included in their Constitution, coincidentally in the 14[sup]th[/sup] Amendment. These preferences were originally set to expire in 20 years, but they have been extended again and again, and they have been expanded to many other groups.
BTW this information comes from an unpublished book by Thomas Sowell, which is being reviewed by the Book of the Month Club.
One can question just how aware Dr. King was of what was occurring in other countries. Given his education, I wouldn’t bet on his ignorance.
However, that’s not the same as Affirmative Action, is it? It’s a different country, different laws, different racial history, etc. I maintain that, whatever King may have to say about previous movements for other races, quoting him as in support or against Affirmative Action, specifically, is inappropriate and dishonest.
You criticized cowgirl for attributing an opinion to Dr. King which she could not prove. Why is she wrong for doing so, but it’s all right for you?
Of course there are differences. In fact, there are dozens of different versions of affirmative action in use today in the US. So what? I quoted King’s words. The quote was challenged on the basis that he couldn’t have been thinking of affirmation action, since such a thing didn’t exist. I demonstrated that it did exist.
BTW, programs designed to benefit Blacks had existed for hundreds of years. Douglass’s quote specifically addressed those programs and rejected them. So, it’s certainly possible that King meant to do the same. Or, if King didn’t oppose AA, he sure wasn’t an enthusiastic supporter.
Of course, I cannot prove what was in his mind and his heart at that moment. All I can do is read his words.
Because I was quoting what King actually said. She was merely giving her personal opinion of AA.