Is WiFi really that dangerous ?

Not sure that this is a G.Q. so I am putting it in here instead. This article on the adverse effects of WiFi has me thinking. I am sitting 2 1/2 feet from the WiFi modem for my DSL. Should I be concerned? If it can cause radiation damage/ brain damage/ senility and other health issues in children, why are adults perfectly happy to work all day near WiFi transmitters?

I had no idea that WiFi systems were akin to cellular phones and cellular masts in terms of radiation. This is a cause of concern. I haven’t poked around much yet, but plan to today. Anyone up on the data on this? Is it really that dangerous for me to be sitting here, working 10-14 hours a day near this seemingly innocuous box? What of folks who have a WiFi card in the back of the computer mini tower that sits on the floor a few feet from where their toddler sits and plays?

Are there ways to have WiFi in the house and limit exposure, or is it inherently unsafe but so popular and wonderful in terms of ease of use that such legitimate health concerns are going to be swept aside?

Cartooniverse

This is just an educated guess but I would say it is complete horse hockey. Articles like this have been put out since the first light bulb was invented. Remember the cell phone = brain tumor scare back in the 90’s? How about the high tension powerline accusations about high tension power lines and kids? WiFi transmitters at least the ones for home use aren’t very powerful and have a rather short range. We are all bathed in man-made radiation every single second of every day coming from anywhere from 2 feet in front of us to thousands of miles away. No one has ever established a strong like between “cancer and senility” for any of these types of radiation.

A link between powerlines and leukemia has recently resurfaced. Google News Search

Why is this crap coming out of second-rate UK news media?

Read these quotes carefuly from the top stories listed.

  1. “Scientists now broadly agree the high-voltage cables carried on pylons could pose a risk.”

  2. “A secret report has raised fresh fears of a link between power lines and cancer”

  3. “A secret report linking power lines and risk of cancer has raised fresh concern in the ministerial corridors in Britain.”

The damned things are practically written in scientific incompetent “Engrish”. God damn, can we send out some some English speaking missionaries to whenever this came from to teach basic science skills? I am getting concerned about the education of youth in faraway lands.

It would be nice if government officials would learn just what the hell the word “radiation” meant before bandying it about menacingly.

Walkie-talkie toys emit radiation.
My monitor, even though it’s a flat screen, is emitting radiation. It’s practically aglow with it.
Hell, I’m glad I can’t seem to get my new ceiling fixture installed here in my home office, because gasp LIGHT BULBS emit radiation! And it’s orders of magnitude more intense that my Wi-Fi box!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!

Weasel words loved by journalists: “Could pose a risk,” “raised fresh fears,” “raised fresh concern” really means: there’s nothing here, folks, but it will help sell papers.

Your linked article mentions Sir William Stewart as the person behind the Wi-Fi scare.

If you do actually mean to “poke around” today, start here with this 2005 UK news item where the good Sir Bill renews his alarm against cell phones despite the fact that his own study fails to find any link between cell phone use and disease.

Disingenuous to say the least. Visible spectrum radiation ( called “light” ) has nothing to do whatsoever with the radiation concerns surrounding WiFi transmissions or cellular phone towers.

Visible light is in no way harmful- and before someone clever jumps in talking about Sunburns, Sunburns have nothing to do with visible spectrum lighting.

Comparing your LCD monitor and WiFi radiation may make the Op sound overly worrisome and silly but in fact the analogy holds no water at all and it might be helpful to the conversation not to try to score points by making false comparisons.

Hi again. I did read the 2005 article. We are getting into hair splitting territory here, but at least you are not insisting that light is the same kind of radiation as WiFi or Cellular tower emissions. :rolleyes:

On the one hand, this article from the Times of London, 12/06 states:

yet on the other side,

So, from what I am reading, no clear answers as of yet.

I am really, truly, and absolutely trying to understand what you are saying here but it has failed miserably (probably because it makes no sense). It sounds like you are saying as an answer to your own OP that WiFi signals have no relevance to other forms of radiation because they are safe and WiFi is not.

Let’s ask the obvious question and most of the burden is on you now. Why do you think that WiFi signals aren’t related at all to other forms of radiation that we have already accepted as reasonably safe?

I was saying that drawing an analogy between WiFI and visible light spectrum is b.s., and it is.

I am not saying that it is the same as other forms of radation that we have deemed to be unsafe. When smoke detectors first came out, there was a lot of hue and cry about the radiation issue. The truth is that you could stand on a box that kept your head 12 inches from a new smoke detector and never move for a year and get more harmful radiation from an afternoon at the beach.

These are measured facts. The lack of measured facts concerning exposure to WiFi transmitters and amplifiers is what brought about my OP.

Hope this answers your question. :slight_smile:

It does. I was starting to get really disturbed by Dopers’ conclusions and research skills in this thread.

I think we need to start again with some basic facts. WiFi equipment doesn’t use some exotic transission technology. It has just been assigned a band on the same spetrum that other common equipment uses.

The following Wikipedia show where the decided to put the 802.11 standard as opposed to other frequencies for things like cordless phones.

Here is some information to put things in perspective:

“802.11b and 802.11g standards use the 2.40 GHz (gigahertz) band, operating (in the United States) under Part 15 of the FCC Rules and Regulations. Because of this choice of frequency band, 802.11b and 802.11g equipment can incur interference from microwave ovens, cordless telephones, Bluetooth devices, and other appliances using this same band.”

Good cite.

Perhaps the concern is over the amount as much as the frequency? Television trucks use microwave technology to beam signals to GSO satellites. I made the mistake of stepping up onto a small steel walkway on a remote truck once and was yelled at to get DOWN in no uncertain terms.

The same microwaves that are deemed safe in a certain amount for use in the enclosed environment of yer average oven in the kitchen would have done serious internal burn injury to my body.

It is a question of amount, and of inescapability. I can move away from the microwave oven if I have fears. A student cannot move away from a school building where the entire campus has WiFi signals transmitted…

I’ve been following this subject for many, many years. Sometimes it is difficult even for someone with a fair amount of technical knowledge to wade through the crap. Finding unbiased info on the internet is about like finding a needle in an entire field full of haystacks.

One of my professors in college many years ago was one of the early researchers into all of this. According to him, this whole thing got started when an insurance company noticed that people who live next to power lines don’t live as long as people who don’t. Insurance guys get paid lots of money to figure stuff like this out, because it allows the insurance guys to get a better handle on the risks they take when they hand out policies.

For a long time, no one but the insurance companies seemed to take much notice, but then in the 70’s a study came out linking power lines to childhood leukemia. This study was later discredited, but by then the genie was out of the bottle. Things really started getting nutty in the 80’s, and by then people started to think well if power lines can be dangerous, other electrical-ish things like cell phones must be deadly too. At that point, there hadn’t been a lot of research done on the subject, so folks with absolutely no data to back up anything started making arbitrary rules about limits and such. At the height of the silliness, you had folks with field strength meters walking around playgrounds and schools proclaiming what areas were safe and what areas weren’t. And, these silly folks walking around with meters were being paid big bucks to do so, so that the schools could be freed of any legal liability. “Hey, we paid an expert and he said it was safe.”

Millions and millions and millions of dollars were poured into research. Two decades later, we can say three things: (1) There is still no conclusive link between power lines and cancer. (2) There is still no conclusive link between radio waves (cell phones, wi-fi-, whatever) and cancer. (3) People who live next to power lines really don’t live as long as the rest of us, and we still don’t know why. As my professor in college said, it very well could be that the folks who choose to live healthy lifestyles simply choose not to live next to power lines.

Here’s what we do know about electromagnetic radiation. At radio wave, microwave, infra-red, and visible light frequencies, the stuff is reasonably harmless, as long as you don’t get enough of it in one place to do some damage. Stick enough microwaves in a small box and it will cook your food (or anything else places inside the box). Use a magnifying glass to focus visible light and you can cook bugs. Same thing. Once you start getting up into the ultraviolet frequencies and beyond (x-rays, gamma rays, etc), that’s when bad things happen. At these higher frequencies the radiation becomes “ionizing” meaning that it can strip electrons off of atoms and create ions. Ionizing radiation is a bad thing, and is well known to cause cell damage and cancers. Sunglasses and suntan lotions are UV blockers for a good reason.

The confusing part of all of this is that once in a while studies do come out which show some sort of connection between electromagnetic radiation and something bad. Some of these studies are funded by groups with an obvious bias, but quite a few of them aren’t. The problem is that follow-up studies don’t show the same effects. Press coverage doesn’t help. “Power lines cause leukemia!!!” makes the headlines. “Er, nope, sorry they don’t” doesn’t even make the paper, let alone end up on the front page. It is difficult to wade thruogh all of the crap sometimes, but to date, there has been no conclusive link proven between power lines, cell phones, and anything at all bad.

Getting worked up about wi-fi (or cell phones) is a lot like shining a flashlight on your arm and saying “OH MY GOD MY SKIN IS BEING BOMBARDED WITH ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION THIS CAN’T BE GOOD!!!” It’s all a little silly.

Ask yourself this - If wi-fi radiation is so bad, how come higher frequency radiation like visible light isn’t?

Stay away from UV and higher frequencies. You are doing far more harm to yourself walking out in sunlight than you are sitting in front of a wi-fi antenna. Anything lower in frequency than UV (visible light, microwaves, radio waves) won’t hurt you. Stop losing sleep over it.

If a truck is beaming signals to a satellite, it’s using a parabolic reflector, which focuses into a tight beam radiation that would otherwise disperse.

Wi-Fi on a campus is broadcast, by the towers and the computer cards, omnidirectionally, and is thus subject to the inverse-square law.

Even if there were some evidence that Wi-Fi “radiation” were harmful (and there is no reason, based on many decades of humanity being bathed in RF radiation, to think that such evidence is suddenly going to emerge), it would be nearly impossible to be exposed to very much of it under normal circumstances.

I’m guessing that land near giant power lines probably isn’t the most prime real-estate around. Which means that people who live near powerlines are probably on average in a lower income strata, which might mean they don’t eat as well, have poorer health coverage, etc.

Or it could be that people who live near power lines tend to be more rural, and therefore have poorer access to health care, possibly have more dangerous occupations, etc. I hope that any studies trying to make such a tenuous link between power lines and lifespan are controlling for the many, many things that people who live near power lines may have in common.

I heard some bee expert recently speculate that the crisis in bees dying off is caused by these bands of radio waves for cell phones and wifi. Somehow they disorient the bees and they get lost.

It seems like everything you do will cause you to die sooner. Perhaps we should enclose ourselves inside a faraday cage in a state of suspended animation?

As I stated and scotandrsn supported, there are situations where microwaves outside of a kitchen are astonishingly dangerous so waving your hand about and poo-poohing we ignoramuses does nothing but diminish your credibility. Okay? I respect your years of expertise but not your condescension. So. Again, I ask you to read my post referring to an incident with a microwave broadcast truck.

I didn’t say that shining a flashlight was cause for screaming in all caps either.

Sure, if you get enough microwave energy in one place it is dangerous, but so is visible light. The point was that radio energy is no more dangerous than light, which is generally regarded as being harmless. You wouldn’t want to stand in front of a microwave parabolic dish antenna, but then you wouldn’t want to stand anywhere near the focal point of a solar mirror array, either.

You misunderstood my intent. I wasn’t trying to be condescending or insult you in any way. My point was that worrying about radio waves is as silly as screaming about a flashlight. I was not saying that you personally were running around screaming silly things. Quite the contrary. I think you are an intelligent person asking a very reasonable question. If my post came off as indicating anything otherwise, I apologize.

This is a very complex subject with lots of misinformation being thrown around as fact. I was trying to put your mind at ease, not insult you.