I guess “queer as a twonie” just doesn’t carry the same punch.
[QUOTE=Doctor Who]
Can I ask a question?
It seems to me that Washington fucked up, slurring his castmate (Knight) and getting into a fight with Dempsey over it. The producers called him in and said, “make nice, or you’re out.” He made nice. He made a little Public Service Announcement about tolerance and all that.
Then they wrote him out at the end of the season.
It seems to me that, in Washington’s mind, he did what they asked him to do - he jumped through all their hoops - and they still ditched him. And that’s why he’s so angry and belligerent. That’s not at all to diminish what he did wrong, or rationalize it away, or say, “it’s the producer’s / TR / Shonda Rhimes’ fault.” Just to say, without condoning his actions or statements, that I can understand why he’s so angry.
Anybody agree? Disagree?
[/QUOTE]
I have to say I agree. They made him wear the sackcloth and ashes, and he did it. And in the end it didn’t make any difference; they fired him anyway. Of course, we don’t know what else might have been going on behind the scenes, and that doesn’t excuse his behavior now, especially the cries of racism, which are ridiculous, but, yeah, I can see why he’d be pissed about it.
[QUOTE=Sad and Deranged]
Oh, those people* would never issue an apology without making it seem like it wasn’t their fault they made a bad judgement call.
*those people referring to actors, of course
[/QUOTE]
I don’t understand why he didn’t just duck into rehab for a couple of weeks, thereby laying blame on the demon rum. Or whatever.
[QUOTE=Doctor Who]
Can I ask a question?
It seems to me that Washington fucked up, slurring his castmate (Knight) and getting into a fight with Dempsey over it. The producers called him in and said, “make nice, or you’re out.” He made nice. He made a little Public Service Announcement about tolerance and all that.
Then they wrote him out at the end of the season.
It seems to me that, in Washington’s mind, he did what they asked him to do - he jumped through all their hoops - and they still ditched him. And that’s why he’s so angry and belligerent. That’s not at all to diminish what he did wrong, or rationalize it away, or say, “it’s the producer’s / TR / Shonda Rhimes’ fault.” Just to say, without condoning his actions or statements, that I can understand why he’s so angry.
Anybody agree? Disagree?
[/QUOTE]
If they gave him impression that doing the PSA, etc. would keep him on the show, then I agree. If those were his idea, or if the show had some other arrangement or no arrangement at all, then I disagree.
What pisses me off is his attitude that because he’s black, that gives him the right to be an asshole about other minorities. Wouldn’t that just make it even worse-because he knows what it’s like to experience bigotry?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t his comments at the Emmy’s come after he made the PSA? If this is true, he demonstrated that, while he “made nice and all that” for a while, he wasn’t really sincere and true nature will and did out.
If this is not the sequence of events, I withdraw this post.
As a black man and a gay man, I’m still perplexed the blacks can blanketly treat gays in such bigoted ways.
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t his comments at the Emmy’s come after he made the PSA? If this is true, he demonstrated that, while he “made nice and all that” for a while, he wasn’t really sincere and true nature will and did out.
If this is not the sequence of events, I withdraw this post.
As a black man and a gay man, I’m still perplexed the blacks can blanketly treat gays in such bigoted ways.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not black, but I’ve had a few black people tell me the Denzel Washington character, pre-transformation, in Philadelphia, is a fairly common attitude, or at least was when it came out.
And speaking of Denzel Wshington, IIRC he advised Will Smith not to kiss Anthony Micheal Hall (how he could he resist?) in Six Degrees, because of the possible backlash in the black community.
5-4, do you have a take on either?
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
As a black man and a gay man, I’m still perplexed the blacks can blanketly treat gays in such bigoted ways.
[/QUOTE]
It’s self-loathing all the way. Washington is clearly on the DL. 
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
I’m not black, but I’ve had a few black people tell me the Denzel Washington character, pre-transformation, in Philadelphia, is a fairly common attitude, or at least was when it came out.
And speaking of Denzel Wshington, IIRC he advised Will Smith not to kiss Anthony Micheal Hall (how he could he resist?) in Six Degrees, because of the possible backlash in the black community.
5-4, do you have a take on either?
[/QUOTE]
I hope this is not too much of a hijack, but I’ll try to answer your questions, as I understand them and as these issues resonate for me.
Will Smith, first: I was extremely disappointed by that non-visible-kiss choice (and did not know Denzel advised against it). I wasn’t looking for a full on make-out session (except if I’d been in the AMH role), but I’d have liked the choice to have been closer to the story I knew. I do understand, however, that those were the times and actors and expecially black actors had to make those types of choices in order to advance their careers.
Black attitudes towards homosexuality: Yes, that was and continues to be, in my experiences, the prevelant attitude and possibilities for backlash (in the face of such character choices) in the black community towards gays (it’s less harsh against lesbians than men as my next point below will explicate).
I’ve posted here on the SDMB about the time I said hello to a young male acquaintance of mine on the street (whom I was friendly with) and his cohorts, who were there when I walked up. Perceiving I was gay, one of the cohorts, as I walked away, said out loud, “I can’t believe that thing spoke to me.”
I think the attitude towards lesbians is less harsh because there’s, to me, an overall impression of strength, aggression and dominance. The attitude toward gay men is tied up in (with all the complexities involved in any analysis of this sort) with the historical stripping of manhood, control of sexuality and propogation roles, and dominance and weakness issues that gets arised when a culture’s wounded and pathologized psyche confronts what they think it means to be gay.
This is the shorthand of my impressions, truncated so as not to hijack this thread too much. If I’ve misperceived your questions, and hijacked the thread, my bad.
OneCentStamp, that’s it exactly.
[QUOTE=Dr. Woo]
I don’t understand why he didn’t just duck into rehab for a couple of weeks, thereby laying blame on the demon rum. Or whatever.
[/QUOTE]
Assuming this isn’t a woosh, he did.
I feel like I’m missing a big piece of the picture here, but I remember seeing that Golden Globes quote (it was replayed a million times over the next week), and I distinctly remember him saying that he did NOT call that other cast member a faggot, when asked about it. This was the first time I heard about this incident, which apparently stemmed from something earlier. Was there a big backlash that he used the F word that night (which sounded like he was just quoting the question word for word), or because he was lying about what happened?
[QUOTE=Doctor Who]
Can I ask a question?
It seems to me that Washington fucked up, slurring his castmate (Knight) and getting into a fight with Dempsey over it. The producers called him in and said, “make nice, or you’re out.” He made nice. He made a little Public Service Announcement about tolerance and all that.
Then they wrote him out at the end of the season.
It seems to me that, in Washington’s mind, he did what they asked him to do - he jumped through all their hoops - and they still ditched him. And that’s why he’s so angry and belligerent. That’s not at all to diminish what he did wrong, or rationalize it away, or say, “it’s the producer’s / TR / Shonda Rhimes’ fault.” Just to say, without condoning his actions or statements, that I can understand why he’s so angry.
Anybody agree? Disagree?
[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=fusoya]
I feel like I’m missing a big piece of the picture here, but I remember seeing that Golden Globes quote (it was replayed a million times over the next week), and I distinctly remember him saying that he did NOT call that other cast member a faggot, when asked about it. This was the first time I heard about this incident, which apparently stemmed from something earlier. Was there a big backlash that he used the F word that night (which sounded like he was just quoting the question word for word), or because he was lying about what happened?
[/QUOTE]
The thing I don’t understand is why he would deny doing something in front of the people who supposedly witnessed it the first time. Is he just crazy? Because you have to be absolutely insane to lie like that. It seems like we are missing something here. I don’t know who is to blame, but the picture seems incomplete.
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
It’s more apparent how bad he screwed up after reviewing his credits. Sure he’s worked steadily for a while, but the closet thing to a gig like Grey’s Anatomy is well…hard to say- his role in Romeo Must Die? Wild Things 2? Trois 3?
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps because he already had a track record of being a royal PITA. He managed to climb out of his self-dug hole with Grey’s Anatomy only to dig himself another one. His current braying ass comments may very well kill his career.
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
As a black man and a gay man, I’m still perplexed the blacks can blanketly treat gays in such bigoted ways.
[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. As a Black, gay man myself, I’m actually neither perplexed nor surprised that this is the case.
Is it unfortunate? Absolutely.
But perplexing? Unexpected? From my POV, nope.
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting]
Let me say this, before the thread gets overlong and someone else beats me to it: Al Sharpton is a race baiter.* …<snip>… *You’ll see.
[/QUOTE]
This was priceless! 
[QUOTE=fusoya]
Was there a big backlash that he used the F word that night (which sounded like he was just quoting the question word for word), or because he was lying about what happened?
[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t up to speed on the whole thing myself, but I wondered about this, too. If he used the word in exactly the manner that you suggested (in reference to something that he’d been asked, i.e., “I beg your pardon? Did I call him a faggot?”), then my opinion is that people are being oversenstive. (NOTE: This applies *only * to what went down at the Golden Globes–if that’s the way that it indeed went down–NOT to his original offense, for which he very rightly got carried out to the woodshed.)
Who knows? Maybe it would’ve gone over better if he’d said “the f-word” in responding at the Golden Globes. (I’ve been getting the vibe lately that “faggot” has become the new “nigger” in that, now, instead of saying the actual word, you have to intial-dash-“word” it.)
At any rate, as to the part of the Newsweek article that CJJ* quoted:
Honestly, part of wants to call him a meshugunah and be done with it (and part of me certainly feels that way). On the other hand, though, part of me is not so sure that there’s not at least *some * kernel of truth to what he says.
Living as a Black man in America, and being aware that yeah, there sometimes/oftentimes/whatever is a different standard of respectful treatment (maybe not always in orders of magnitude, but certainly different enough) for Whites than there is for Blacks, I understand what he’s saying here, and I don’t think he’s totally pulling shit out of his ass.
Mind you, not that I think that anyone was unjustified in pointing out what at the very least was his assholish (if not outright bigotry) in using that slur, and demanding that he make amends for it–because this was certainly a justifiable reaction–but I can see how he might wonder if the reaction and subsequent flogging might have been less severe had he been a well-known White actor.
Yes, I’m aware that *someone * here will not only disagree with me, but will also tell me that I’m imagining things. (Y’know–some bullshit about observer-expetancy effect or some-such.) Not that this’ll prevent you from posting as much. I know it won’t. I just wanted you to know that when you do post it, you will *not * be expanding my horizons.
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
The fact is, if he hadn’t called the guy a faggot, he’d still be on the show. Period. That other stuff could theoretically be a reason for a racist member of cast or crew not to like him personally, but to claim it played a part in his dismissal is ridiculous, and a crutch for those who don’t want to take responsibility for their actions or comments. He knows his big mouth fucked him out of millions, and can’t face the fact its his own fault, so its gotta be the man’s fault. What a dick.
[/QUOTE]
No kidding. After reading that this morning, I KNEW there’d be a Pit thread on him. This is the THIRD interview I’ve read in which he pulls out his handy-dandy race card. Every interview is increasingly dickish.
My impressions are as such:
1st interview (Entertainment Weekly): Gosh, he’s kinda pompous, isn’t he?
2nd interview (Houston Chronicle): “They fired the wrong guy”?? You are delusional.
3rd interview (from above): :eek: Shut the fuck up already! You’re as crazy as a shithouse rat!
Anyhoo, yeah, he apologized and did his little PSA, etc., but I have a feeling that even though he tried to make good, it’s this attitude that resulted in his firing after all. If he can’t play nice with his castmates, then he’s going to be a liability on the set. It’s a business decision.
And how is it racism anyway? Because he was fired and just happens to be black? Yes, Hollywood doesn’t have any tolerance for blacks in showbiz. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Lil Pluck]
I wasn’t up to speed on the whole thing myself, but I wondered about this, too. If he used the word in exactly the manner that you suggested (in reference to something that he’d been asked, i.e., **“I beg your pardon? Did I call him a faggot?”), ** then my opinion is that people are being oversenstive. (NOTE: This applies only to what went down at the Golden Globes–if that’s the way that it indeed went down–NOT to his original offense, for which he very rightly got carried out to the woodshed.)
[/QUOTE]
(Bolding mine)
What he said at the Golden Globes was “I never called T.R. a faggot.” He got shit for that, which I admit was overblown, especially when T.R. said the word on Ellen Degeneres’ show. I think the focus should have stayed on the original incident.
First of all, in show biz time is money. Everyone is working on making a product and there is no room for egotism. Save it for the public camera.
Second of all, I wonder what would have happen to Knight if he called Washington “the n-word.” Could he play the minority card.
Third of all, nobody wants to work with a jerk. I don’t care how talented you are, you have to get along with people.
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
Second of all, I wonder what would have happen to Knight if he called Washington “the n-word.” Could he play the minority card.
[/QUOTE]
No. Hell no. Knight would have been toast, gay or not. And unlike Washington, Kinght may not even have been able to save himself with an apology in that case - even a sincere one. If Don Imus, the undisputed star of his show, can be run off the ranch for “nappy headed hos” (not saying it wasn’t deserved), there’s no possible way T.R. Knight, a supporting character, gets away with flatly calling a co-star the n-word.
[QUOTE=Nutty Bunny]
What he said at the Golden Globes was “I never called T.R. a faggot.” He got shit for that, which I admit was overblown, especially when T.R. said the word on Ellen Degeneres’ show. I think the focus should have stayed on the original incident.
[/QUOTE]
A general rule of thumb in PR is that you never want your client to repeat an alleged slur because then the public can totally picture him saying it. I agree the Golden Globes backlash was oveblown, except that he had called T.R. a “faggot” and that fact was not in dispute, so denying it made him look like an even bigger ass.
He was taunting Dempsey, said “I’m not your faggot like T.R.” (hey he could have just said “I’m not your bitch, jerk!”) then shoved him against a wall and started choking him.
He did the same thing while he was filming a guest-starring role for a TV series several years ago: shoved him and started choking him. It resulted in a restraining order and the cops removing him from the set in handcuffs.
The PSA may have taken care of the slur, but if the guy was generally menacing on set and they saw him as a powder keg ready to blow, better get out of the line of fire: send the short-fused explosive device away.
If the original quote was “I’m not your faggot like T.R.”, then in his mind I guess he’s rationalizing it like “I didn’t *call * him a faggot, as in ‘hey TJ you’re a faggot’, but referred to him as a faggot”. Big difference I guess in his pea brain.