Isn' it offensive for prospective employers to want my "salary history"?

In My Humble Opinion
1

When and how did it become acceptable for prospective employers to ask for all of my former salaries? If it’s rude for a person to do such a thing, where do they get the gall to do it?

I’m a little steamed about this. I have recently been thrown back out into the (out-of) workforce, and every application seems to want to know what I was paid at my former jobs. Since I’m pretty sure the only reason they want to know is so they can pay me as little as possible if I’m hired, isn’t it in my best interests to refuse to say? Can they legally discriminate against me for refusing?

Are there any current of former HR people on the Board who can give the POV of an employer on this matter?

2

They may want to see if they can afford you. Let’s say at your current position, you make $30,000/yr and the place where you are applying is only willing to offer $27,000. They’ll probably be less likely to recruit you since you would have to take a pay cut. This just happened to me, but I took the job anyway. I took a pay cut of about 15%, but it was well worth it. I actually like going to work now.

Just a WAG.

3

Why would this be offensive? If you go to rent an apartment or a piece of equipment, it’s relevant for you to ask what they rent to other people for.

I can’t say what the law says. But as an employer, I’ll tell you that if someone refused to answer any question in indignation, I wouldn’t hire them. I don’t ask unreasonable questions, and I answer all reasonable questions. And people that hide stuff don’t make me happy.

The value of that piece of information is to know what the past market value of what I’m buying is. So, yes it is to “pay you as little as possible” in the sense that I’m unlikely to pay you double what the last guy did. If you’re worth double, why wasn’t he paying it?

Now, all that said, if I were in your shoes, I would avoid answering the question by saying “I’m very interested in working for you; what does the job pay?”. It’s the typical dance.

4

Indeed. Resume padding and position/duties exaggeration has become so commonplace that I assume the wage is one of the few areas where a company can see if you are “in their league”.

Lets suppose that I claim to be an IT manager. I can say that I’ve maintanined and troubleshooted many computers on many different platforms. Now imagine Sony wants to hire an IT manager. If my previous salary was $80,000 a year, they can be a little more comfortable in my skills and experience, than say if my previous salary was $30,000 a year. Titles come and go, but salary is usually a good indicator. After all, I could be an “IT manager” for my dad’s home-office business.

Does that make any sense? On preview I realize that I really don’t know what I’m talking about and the aforementioned is really just a WAG – not really worth of a GQ answer.

Oh well, I’ll hit submit anyway.

5

So Bill H., how much did you take in last year?

And how did you determine that it is somehow “reasonable” to ask people how much they made? Your comparison to renting an apartment or piece of equipment doesn’t strike m as very apt. Those are inanimate objects whose price is usually openly declared, not secretly bargained over. Either I’m willing to pay $100 an hour to rent a backhoe, or I’m not.
But you, on the other hand, are inquiring for a bit of private information about someone in order to give yourself a stronger bargaining position over them. how on earth is that fair or reasonable? Why not simply decide how much getting the job done is worth to you, and then offer the person that salary?

6

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Both you and the company are just looking out for their best interest. Your labor is a product, and the company wants to acquire the best product at the cheapest price. Naturally, you want to sell your labor for as much as you can get for it.

Just as a responsible consumer would do some research before buying an expensive product (say, a car) the company is doing research about you. They will try to judge your quality based on your resume, experience and references, and they will determine your price by asking how much other people paid for you.

It’s reasonable, and not rude. I don’t know if any labor laws forbid employers from demanding previous salaries, but I would doubt it.

7

So Bill H., how much did you take in last year?

And how did you determine that it is somehow “reasonable” to ask people how much they made? Your comparison to renting an apartment or piece of equipment doesn’t strike m as very apt. Those are inanimate objects whose price is usually openly declared, not secretly bargained over. Either I’m willing to pay $100 an hour to rent a backhoe, or I’m not.
But you, on the other hand, are inquiring for a bit of private information about someone in order to give yourself a stronger bargaining position over them. how on earth is that fair or reasonable? Why not simply decide how much getting the job done is worth to you, and then offer the person that salary?

8

Lizard wrote

Friend Lizard, you asked for an employer’s opinion and you got it. You’ll find other employers think the same. If you really didn’t want my opinion and were looking to vent on the unfairness of it all, that’s fine but a little warning would be in order next time.

How much money I make isn’t available for you, but I do give it to employers if pressed. (even us management types are employees.) As I said, there’s a little dance involved in any sales bargaining, not just salary. “how much do you want?” “how much is it worth to you?”, repeat.

9

They can ask, they can insist, they can swear that if you don’t tell them they won’t hire you. You don’t have to tell them. And you can be a better negotiator than they are.

10

When I hire people, I ask this question. If they refuse to answer, it’s a black mark against them.

The OP is confusing social etiquette with professional job negotiation. It’s certainly socially rude to demand this information of someone, but it’s neither rude nor unprofessional to require it in the context of a job application.

11

Curious: of the employers here who ask for salary histories, are you also willing to provide the salary history of the incumbent during their tenure at your firm? As in, you show 'em yours, he’ll show you his?

12

Of course not. And again, if you’re asking this in the context of “Oh god, why is the world so cruel???” then you need to find another shoulder to cry on. I’m answering these because they’re asked under the pretext of “how does the world work, and what’s my best strategy to win in this arena?”

13

The salary question has been working against my husband, on the few occasions that he’s had interviews for full-time work since being downsized in 2001. He had a pretty high hourly rate at the old job, and that type of job just isn’t available anymore. He’s willing to work for the rates being offered for less-skilled jobs (he’s being realistic here – he’ll never get a job comparable to the old job in that industry again, nor does he want one), but emplyers think he’ll be dissatisfied working for less. They don’t seem to make the connection that having a salary is better than not having one. So for previous salary he puts a dash, and for desired salary he puts “negotiable.” If they want to play games and make judgments because he doesn’t lay that info out on a stinkin’ APPLICATION, when they aren’t even talking to him yet, he probably doesn’t want to work for them anyway.

14

YES, it’s ok just to ignore requests to “inclue salary history”. Most people do!

And I know. Those words are usually just boilerplate from endless prior ads that also had them, and were also ignored by most everyone.

You DO run a risk, if at interview or phone interview time you try to duck a direct question. Some do that, but it always makes me leery. However, some can simply dodge the entire question with words like “Salary is never the only point. I want the job and will assume I’ll be paid in line with your existing employees.”

15

Another reason an employer wants your salary history is as an indicator of what worth previous emplyers placed on your skills, and whether you have a pattern of improvement or decline. If you went from $50K to 45 and then to 40, they see that something’s wrong, unless there’s a valid reason for it. On the other hand, if they see that your salary has been steadily increasing, that may inspire them to make you a more generous offer.

I am not positive, and I am not a lawyer. However, prospective employers may contact previous employers to see if what you say on your resume is correct. You may tell them not to contact your present employer, since that could jeopardize your current job. After you’re hired, they may do so anyway. If it is found that you lied on your application or resume, many employers will fire you immediately.

Many companies will not provide a reference or evaluation, but will verify dates of employment and salary, since these are objective facts.

What others have said about leaving that space blank or giving tactful replies are excellent suggestions. But if you become arrogant and stubborn about it, the employer may decide they don’t like your attitude.

16

Bill H.
*So, yes it is to “pay you as little as possible” in the sense that I’m unlikely to pay you double what the last guy did. If you’re worth double, why wasn’t he paying it?

Now, all that said, if I were in your shoes, I would avoid answering the question by saying “I’m very interested in working for you; what does the job pay?”. It’s the typical dance.*

Just wanted to say “Thanks” for completely validating all my bad feelings for management in general! My god, you are a gold mine! Not only do you freely admit that salary histories are used to screw prospective employees, you then go further to suggest that the correct and expected thing to do is to sink to the level of said salary history requirer, and be a dishonest weasel yourself!

If you ever see a resume with the name “Ben Cantrick” cross your desk, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE completely and instantly reject me. I never, ever want to work for you or any company that has chosen to employ people like you.

TIA,
-Ben

17

Why do you feel that these salary histories are used to “screw” prospective employees? Why the attitude? The employer is trying to pay this person in accordance with what his previous employer paid him. How does that make him a “dishonest weasel”?

18

Keeve, don’t be silly. The employer is not trying to pay this person in accordance with what a previous employer paid, any more than the applicant is willing to settle for that. The employer is trying to pay as little as possible, for as much talent as possible. Period. Why wouldn’t they? “Dishonest weasel” may not always be apt, but having a question on the application form, and therefore setting up the applicant with the horror of an unanswered question, is at the very least a strong-arm tactic.

In all seriousness, though, most people think it’s a shitty question. I would NEVER answer it.

From an interview loop standpoint, I’ve usually seen prospective employers consider people who answer this question straight up as either naive or chumps.

My advice is in line with the wise posters who suggested you do the dance - “We can talk more about that when we learn more about mutual expectations,” Skichicks’ “Salary is never the only point. I want the job and will assume I’ll be paid in line with your existing employees” and a variety of other dodges you’ll find in how-to books about job hunting and career building.

19

Don’t worry, Bill. I’ll work for you. :slight_smile: I’m under no illusion that my employer would be paying me as much as it does if it didn’t have to.

Folks, the whole point of the salary is to get you to do work for them, and if someone just as good as you is willing to do it cheaper, they’d be silly not to take them up on it. So it stands to reason that if you yourself were willing to do the job for less money, they’d prefer that too. The point of the negotiation process is that you try to get yourself the best deal you can, and they try to do the same. You’re right that they don’t generally act like this is what they’re doing, but that’s simply because “making you feel like they care” is part of the package deal, since if you don’t feel like they care, you might not accept their offer.

Do they really care? Some do, some don’t. It doesn’t really matter. Once you’re hired, it’s a good idea to keep your distance from the HR people anyway, for your own sanity’s sake. :slight_smile:

Regarding the OP, if you’re in this type of negotiation with someone, it becomes acceptable for them to ask you certain questions that wouldn’t be acceptable normally. For example, social conventions normally prevent you from asking how much someone’s house is worth, but if they put it on the market, suddenly it becomes fair game to ask.

If a prospective employer asks you your previous salary, you’re at liberty to withhold that information, but then the employer is left asking himself why you’d do that. “That’s personal information” doesn’t make any sense, given that, if you’re hired, this guy is about to know exactly how much money you make. So the conclusion the employer draws is, “he must not have made much before.” In which case, the offer is liable to come in low.

While we’re on the subject, I’d like to throw out my favorite tidbit of job-hunting advice: Never turn down a job. Just ask for a lot of money. Basically, if you’re interviewing for a job, it’s a given that you’re at least somewhat interested. If you decide you don’t want it, it could be for a variety of reasons, like the pay is too low, or it’s boring, etc. At this point, you ask yourself: how much would they have to pay me to make me want this job? If you can come up with a real truthful answer to that question, just tell them you want that much. Either they think you’re nuts and you don’t get a job you didn’t want anyway, or they say ok and you make a lot of money (enough to make this otherwise unappealing job appealing). I’ve known people who employed this method and ended up making way more money than they realized they were worth.

20

I’m a little puzzled. You think it’s wrong for employers to wish to pay prospective employees a market salary? Trying to discern their pay history and pay aspirations is nothing but an evil effort to “screw prospective employees”.

I have a little difficulty understanding this attittude. Companies try to minimise their costs. Their loyalty and their moral duty is to their owners – shareholders – and not to every Joe and Jane who lands a resume on an HR desk. A good way of providing value to their shareholders is to avoid paying more than they have to in order to attract quality employees. Further, a good way of avoiding paying greater than a fair market salary for a particular prospective employee is to ASK them how much they have being earning.

Your post is a curious mix of misplaced moral outrage and business naivete. Confusing forthright negotiation between employers and prospective employees and “dishonest weasel[ing]” is a mistake.