Yeah, regular Americans still hate the Irish with a burning passion. You see “No Irish” signs in store windows all over the U.S. Peace between us and the Irish can never happen.
Er… Irish-Americans were able to assimilate not because of the sex appeal of Irish girls or Irish boys but because they were seen as whites.
Now, yes if Palestinians en masse converted Judaism, things would change, but I seriously doubt that will happen anytime soon.
That’s because you didn’t say anything new nor did you refute my point. I’m not going to do new material if you’re not
Cause its true
No need, the examples I gave are enough
Evidently you are unable or unwilling to comprehend my post.
So noted.
He actually already admitted that his point was wrong about French anti-Semitism when he whined about me asking him if French citizens who were Catholic or of Portuguese or Spanish descent faced such charges.
He conceded they weren’t but said that the Jews should grow up and move on because Muslims in France were treated worse.
His only argument seems to be that since French Muslims face even worse discrimination French Jews should simply “move on” and stop whining.
Of course comparing the treatment of French Jews and French Muslims absolutely moronic.
French Muslims have only lived there for a few decades at most whereas French Jews have been living in France since before the time of Columbus. Also, French Muslims are a visible minority hated because they’re not “white” but are instead North African(with rare exceptions).
In fact, anti-Muslim commentators in France to make distinctions between Frenchmen and Muslims refer to “blancs”(meaning “whites”).
French Jews, with rare exceptions, are “whites” or “blancs.”
In fact, only someone denying reality would try and argue that anti-Semitism is not a problem in a country in which almost half the country thought Jews were untrustworthy traitors and over a third thought that “Jews had too much power in the business world”.
Anyway, we’ve gotten way off from the OP so I’m going to open a separate thread.
It won’t be solved in my lifetime because the Israelis do not want to solve the problem. The calls for democracy as a prerequisite is a red herring because when the Palestinians went to the polls in a democratic election, Israel threw a temper tantrum and cut PLO’s electric power. It would be analgous to New York sending in the national guard to invade Ohio because he didn’t particularly like anti-New York party Ohioans voted for. Even Hamas is, for all intents and purposes, blowback from meddling in Palestinian politics. There are also reports (1, 2) that Israel is essentially engaging in economic warfare against Gaza and the Palestinian people. Taken together, I’m convinced that Israel does not want to solve the problem because they benefit politically and/or monetarily to keep the status quo in perpetuity.
Also, read carefully at the posters words here, how they refer to Arabs and Muslims interchangeably (suppose that’s to cover the reflexive antipathy toward Iran and Turkey, too) and how they frame the idea that all or even most Arabs and Muslims have an innate preoccupation with Israel’s destruction. It’s paranoia of the first order that would be funny instead of scary if the world wasn’t playing along.
There ought to be both humanitarian and international push to relocate the Palestinians to new homeland. Whether it be in Dearborn, MI or the northern steppes of Russia, the Palestinians need to be moved to have a fresh start away from the tanks, the bulldozers, and night raids. We (the U.S) did the same with Iraqi refugees and should offer the same to the Palestinians.
- Honesty
Right, the southern States were a fully fledged democracy.
Damn those non-property owning types, and women (of any age), oh and the non-whites as well.
Thanks for the link. Really helpful.
Right, implicit is - obviously - a nation state.
I know how these threads go - the silly, child-like, semantic games people get sucked into, esp. on this message board - it’s like the dominant culture here. It’ll continue in the next thread which absolutely must overlap its predecessor in order that the same posters can repeat and repeat and repeat without pause the same empty postulating they’ve been doing year after year.
I have no interest in getting sucked into this bizarre internet world - and it won’t impact you a jot to read you convince no one but yourself with these juvenile contrivances.
Even though 9 times out of 10 “anti-Semitic” is just a rhetorical device that means “you disagree with me and I can’t think of a good counter-argument,” you might want to reconsider with the French specifically.
I’ll grant you that Parisians just hate everybody outside their little bubble – they’re like New Yorkers or Texans. But France is more than Paris, and the French are actually pretty accommodating most of the time. But with Jews? Not so much.
Your overall point is completely valid, it’s just this specific case that might not be sound.
That’s a little harsh. The Israelis aren’t helping the situation, but they’re completely bat shit terrified. They can’t afford to get it wrong, so they’re going to err on the side of safety as opposed to human rights.
Survival, in this case, trumps moral considerations, and the Israelis are playing a very long game. It’s really hard to blame them given (1) history, (2) the stakes, and (3) the rhetoric of the peoples who surround them.
Now if it were me, I’d move to Manhattan. There’s ice hockey and the women are prettier. But they do not appear to consider that an option.
Kepler1571:
Hey, now - I can’t speak for Parisians or Texans, but we New Yorkers don’t hate non-New Yorkers. We just want the slowpokes to get the hell out of our way, because we have somewhere to be.
Lol, you are the one playing semantic games. Trying to weasel out of your ridiculous claim that democracies do not go to war with each other.
Of course what you really meant was that True Democracies do not go to war with eachother. :rolleyes: And somehow you are completely sure that a Palestinian State would definitely be a True Democracy.
Never mind the fact that Hamas was democratically elected. And never mind the fact that the Palestinian Authority has been postponing elections for years. And never mind the fact that dozens of countries have recognized a Palestinian State. If Israel would only recognize a Palestinian State, then “Palestine” would become a True Democracy and never ever threaten Israel. :rolleyes:
i.e. you don’t like the uncomfortable feeling which comes from having your half-baked arguments scrutinized. Bye 
I just think those two I was arguing with are overblowing things. Finn I know gets into some kind of feverish madness whenever Jews are being discussed, usually Ibn is better than that but apparently in this case he sees demons around every corner. I don’t live in France (and I doubt he does either), but from what news trickles out of it, they don’t seem any more hateful of Jews than any other group. They can’t even stand us Americans, and we saved their ass in WW2! People on this board have said that if you speak English in a restaurant, French waiters will ignore you or look down on you. That, to me, doesn’t scream anti-Semite, it simply screams anti-foreigner. I just can’t get worked up over it, they haven’t done anything overtly anti-Semitic for me to give a damn. You may as well call Americans anti-Muslim for the relatively few incidents that make the news. Oh, and the fact that we have an entire cable channel dedicated to spreading lies and hatred doesn’t make Americans any more anti-Muslim than anti-foreigner either. Everybody should just chill
Yet again, to remind ya:
I’ll note that you honestly seem not to be able to comprehend why referring to Jews whose families have been French for centuries as “foreigners” reaveals that your analysis isn’t just wrongheaded, it’s dangerously wrongheaded.
You have nothing, at all, do you? You can’t even bring yourself to acknowledge the holes in your rationalization, let alone plug them, can you?
You will respond with more flaming, and more claims of complete non-comprehension, but you will not actually put forward an argument more nuanced than “lol shut up whiney jooz!”, eh?
Have you considered using reason instead of ignoring it?
When’s the last time you hard an American refer to “those filthy Brits” instead of “those lazy Mexicans”, or “those dangerous Norwegians!” instead of “those scary Muslims.”
Your argument is full of shit, either because you cannot analyze the situation with anything approaching perspicacity, or because you’re pretzeling yourself to offer up an apologia for racism and bigotry in general. Neither is particularly savory.
Traveling in France I got a very positive pro-American vibe everywhere but Paris, especially among older people who could remember WW2.
I’ll say one (very slight) thing in defense of the Parisians, though… they have to wade through a ton of moronic tourists, and tourists in a functioning city where you’re trying to get things done suck. From May to September DC is inundated with gawking Ma and Pa Kettles drooling on the Capital steps, and after a few years you want to launch pre-emptive nuclear strikes on everywhere west of the Appalachians to stop the migrants at the source.
This is insulting and not appropriate for Great Debates. Don’t do it again.
The exact same thing could be said for the Union, right down to slavery in border states that didn’t secede, so I guess neither side was a democracy then. You probably shouldn’t thank me for a link you didn’t actually read; the issue of defining democracy is the first thing addressed:
How about NATO vs Yugoslavia in 1999? No slavery and women’s suffrage. Democracies fighting each other. Kinda tosses your whole ‘it has never happened’ bit right out the window,eh?
You can remind me all you want, doesn’t mean your opinion on what’s happening there is any more valid. Might I suggest you don’t take isolated incidents so seriously?
Again, like us Chinese people who have been here in America for years, we choose not to fully integrate ourselves within the American melting pot. That’s not wrong, its not bad, and its not our intention to purposefully stand out and reap the xenophobia that follows, but part of it is that we choose to keep our culture different by choice. Many Jews do the same. Good for them, I like diversity in culture, but if it feels foreign-y to people, then they’re gonna complain about it
And you’ll respond like you always do, overreacting to minor cultural skirmishes that doesn’t mean much in the larger picture.
To their credit, the Brits and Norweigians look a lot like the typical American, and their culture doesn’t stand out apart as something really foreign. They are pretty much fully integrated, so there’s no taint of foreigness to them. Different from the Mexicans, Chinese, or whatever.
And of course you can only respond with cursing when someone doesn’t agree with you. You know if you admit I’m right and there’s no real anti-Semitism going on in France, nobody’s going to get killed or anything. The Jews there are just fine. France just needs to lighten up about being all French. They have a pattern to their behavior, even Quebec’s trying to go rogue from Canada, one of the least-offensive countries ever. You may think you’re being all Super Jewish Defender, but all you’re doing is exacerbating their differences and holding them out as foreign. Your argument is not only full of shit, its nothing but shit
Right, they are inundated with tourists so I can see them being a little snippy. I think on the whole though, France is probably a great place, and any hints of anti-Semitism is just being blown up for effect by people who have suffered a lot, but really need to learn that just because you accidentally got a piece of bacon in your kosher sandwich, its not a hate crime
I will believe you when you claim you are unable to comprehend my argument. But you really do need to try if you’re going to participate in a thread in GD. First off, it’s not an “opinion” that your logic has gaping holes. That’s a simple fact. Your claims are insufficient to explain the actual observed behavior, and are completely undone by counter examples. I suspect the reason that you won’t even mention let alone address the holes in your logic is that you know your argument is a complete failure, and you refuse to retract it. Otherwise, provide proof that the French poll similarly when talking about the loyalty of Catholics. Naturally you will be unable to do any such thing if your argument is as worthless as it appears. You will most likely change the subject, as well.
Additionally, you are still relying on Nazi ontology to claim that people whose families were French for centuries are “foreigners” because they happen to be Jewish, provide proof that any other ethnic group with a similar history is still seen as “foreigners” centuries later. You should probably ask yourself if using Hitler’s system of categorization for racial/national status is reaaaaaaaly the way you wanna go. Ya know, just a thought.
So a True Foreign Scotsman eats his porridge with sugar. Of course.
Of course, beyond your ignorant twaddle about how Jews don’t integrate, you’ve, yet again got nothing at all. Want to bet whether or not you could spot pictures of random Jews in the United States if I put them in at the same percentage as Jews are in the general populace?
So, so far you’ve used Nazi ontology to defend French anti-Semitism, claimed that it’s about “foreignness” which not only shows you’re wrong, but which you have to redefine as you go to shift the goalposts, and you’re now alleging that someone Jews aren’t integrated, even after centuries of living in various nations.
I find it hard to believe… but you honestly don’t understand what’s wrong with what you’re saying?
Well, I could note that you’re imagining me “cursing at” people in Great Debates. Imagining things that never happened is not a good sign that you can accurately describe, well, anything at all.
It’s also clear that you’re pretty much just playing a rousing game of Let’s Pretend about France when you, very clearly, are wilfully ignorant and just saying anything that sounds good to you, with zero regard for the factual accuracy of your statements. You think Jews have it fine, so that’s what you’ll say, facts be damned as extraneous. You happen to be not just wrong, but foolishly, glaringly so.