Yog, you’ve made it clear you think that French Jews who’ve lived in France for centuries are “foreigners”.
You’ve defended this by claiming that Jews have refused to integrate and “have maintained a distinct identity more than other groups”.
Ok, do you think that American Jews are “foreigners”?
Also, since you claim that Norwegian-Americans aren’t culturally different and have assimilated, then please tell us how Jews have somehow maintained a more distinct identity than Catholics or Norwegians?
This reminds me of the bigotry against American citizens of Japanese descent, in the U.S. in 1942. Bigoted people couldn’t get past the racial aspect of their ancestry, and couldn’t comprehend that they were Americans dammit.
Even today, I meet people who justify the internments (!) because “They’re Japanese.”
The principle that culture is racially defined is not limited to those nasty people in brown shirts in 1938; it still pertains widely today.
(There is a very nice story: not too long ago, some American parents adopted a Chinese girl. Very obviously ethnically Chinese, but, of course, raised in the U.S. from very early childhood, she is as “American” as John Wayne or Lucille Ball. Well, she decided she wanted to go in for Irish folk-dancing, and, in fact, got so good at it as to be in competition level. At very first, there was opposition. “She isn’t Irish.” But very, very quickly people came to realize that limiting someone’s choices on the basis of physical ethnicity is – racism. She was allowed to continue dancing.)
I think you need to chillax. I dunno why you’re so bothered by this. Ever heard of live and let live? Let the French and the Jews snipe at each other, its no business of yours. Nobody’s going to repeat what Hitler did to Jews anymore, too many countries would rise up to defend them, the US and probably Germany and France at the front of that vanguard. You’re seeing enemies where there aren’t any. So relax, maybe you need to take a hot bath or something, or smoke a blunt. Plenty of Jews in Frances are probably wondering what the hell is the big commotion.
I’m not Jewish, but they have some religious and cultural distinctiveness that stand out among the sea of other cultures in the US. Nothing wrong with that, I just celebrated New Years 2 weeks ago. The difference is I don’t sit around and complain about being a victim. What is the point of your questioning? What are you trying to get at? Its clear that I think the Jewish identity is uniquely different, but nowhere have I criticized them for standing out. I think its wonderful, without Jews being distinct, we probably wouldn’t have gotten Seinfeld. But you seem to want your cake and eat it too. You want Jews to be distinct, hold on to that, AND you don’t want anyone to ever say anything about it to make them stand out. Well sorry, you can’t get that, nobody can. The reason why Brits and our friends the former Vikings don’t play up the victim card is because their have already replaced most of their origin culture with those of their adoptive countries. And they don’t complain about it, I have friends who are Scandinavian but have completely lost that part of them. If the Jews want to blend in like everyone else, they’ll have to do the same. Otherwise, stand out, some people will always have a problem with that, but its ok now in the 21st century because France is not anti-Semitic.
And for the record, I don’t think of anyone as foreigners, except actual foreigners. I am reminded all the time that I’m ethnically different and this is my adopted homeland. I think many Jews are as foreign as I am but the difference is, I don’t make a big deal out of it. I’ll never look white, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to give up my February New Year’s or stop eating chicken gizzards. If people look at me funny or call me names, that’s the price I pay. But I’m hardly persecuted, and the Jews are hardly persecuted, so we should all shut up about the small instances where someone calls us a name.
Bullshit, show me how Jews somehow “stand out” more than Catholic Americans or Norwegian Americans.
The closest you come to is mentioning Seinfeld. How was the main character on Seinfeld more “Jewish” than Sam Malone of Cheers was Irish.
Really, so who was putting up the posts in your name in which you specifically claimed that French Jews were “foreigners” and the posts were you defended this by claiming Jews “stand out” and refuse to assimilate?
If I let myself be bothered by a certain sort of person online, that’d sure ruin real life. Believe you’re perturbed me all you wish, but I’m just pointing out that your argument sucks.
And as predicted, you’ve changed the subject and ignored the evidence. You may believe this enrages me, should you so desire.
You are really out to lunch, dude. And so is anyone who ever witnessed both series and asks a question like this.
I mean, at this point, your whole narrative is pure BS. It’s like monkeys are typing away to produce Shakespeare and you fell from the tree and provided an early preview.
LOL. Really, give it up feller. (a) there was no Yugoslavia in 1999 (b) NATO bombed Serbia (C) NATO is not a sovereign state. There would be a d, e, f, etc. but you’re flogging a very dead horse already …
Er… no, Sam Malone, the main character on Cheers, was an Irish-American and owned a pub, which is certainly stereotypically Irish in a city, Boston, that is associated with Irish Americans in much the way New York is associated with Jewish Americans.
Similarly, Jerry Seinfeld, on the show Seinfeld, was a Jewish American.
The point is that their ethnic identities weren’t hidden on either show, but were very rarely mentioned and were very rarely important to the story line.
In fact, it’s a bit odd that you make a statement like that since one could make a strong case that Sam Malone, the dumb jock recovering alcoholic bar owner, was far more stereotypically Irish than the Seinfeld character was stereotypically Jewish.
Yup, Malone is as much an Irish name as Seinfeld is a Jewish name and Irish bartenders are at least as common in Boston as Jewish comedians are in New York.
Now obviously most episodes of Cheers never mentioned his ethnicity just as most episodes of Seinfeld never mentioned Jerry’s, but he was, and as mentioned already, in many ways he was vastly more stereotypically Irish than Jerry was stereotypically Jewish.
However, just as there were a small number of episodes of Seinfeld where Jerry’s ethnicity is mentioned, Sam’s is mentioned in a few St. Patrick’s Day episodes and the one where he goes out with a politician and Diane thinks she’s going out with him to cater to “Irish votes.”
How about providing a definition of “democracy” so everyone knows what you are talking about when you claim that democracies never ever go to war against one another?
Is it necessary that the “democracy” give the vote to women?
Is it necessary that the “democracy” be recognized by Israel? By the United Nations Security Council?
I look forward to seeing you qualify your claim down to the point where it means nothing at all. Except of course that Israel is behaving unreasonably in resisting a Palestinian State. :rolleyes:
You asserted, in essence, that “democracies” never ever go to war with one another and have never done so in history.
So I would like to know how you would define “democracy.”
Is female suffrage an essential component of “democracy” as you are using that term?
Is recognition by the United Nations Security Council an essential component of “democracy” as you are using that term?
These are simple questions, but I doubt you will answer them.
Because you are just playing semantic games. You are qualifying the definition of “democracy” down to the point where your assertion means little or nothing.
And the bottom line is that your underlying point is dead wrong. Israel has a lot to worry about if there is a Palestinian State, even if that Palestinian State is recognized by every last country in the world, holds elections and gives women the right to vote in them.
Actually the article anticipates Brokenbriton’s semantic games:
Of course Brokenbriton refuses to provide his definition of “democracy.” But he KNOWS that a Palestinian state would fall within this secret definition forever.
Are you mad for some reason that I think Jews stand out? That’s the only way I can read your reaction, like you’re afraid that if I say it, it’ll come true or something, and then ghost Hitler will come swooping in picking out all the Jews he can see.
So what if I think they stand out? Get over it
How would I know? I’m not Jewish, I have no idea if what was depicted on Seinfeld was accurate or not, but what I do recognize is the types of quirks associated with Jews in that show are the ones I associate with real life Jews
You’re confusing two different things. From the French perspective, these people are foreigners if they are foreign-ish beliefs and customs. Personally, I’m fine with calling whoever is a citizen a non-foreigner, no matter how weird their customs are. Then there is the dictionary definition of foreigner, which can range from actual foreigners (not a citizen of the country) or foreign meaning strange or unfamiliar. I guess I should have done better at differentiating which definition I was using at the time. But you know that you are getting way too worked up over this :dubious:
This is some kind of internet thing, this pretending you’re not mad when you really are. You’re getting a bit of a vein on your head as we speak, aren’t you? Whatever. If it bothers you that much, I’ll just say that the Jews are the most hated and ostracized people in the world, throughout all of history, does that make you happy? That they have literal targets on their backs everywhere they go, and they are hated in France today as if they lived in Nazi Germany, and we need to give them all of our gold so they can build their promised land and resurrect Sephiroth or something (I’m not too familiar with Jewish mythology).
I’m trying to be supportive of you here, I don’t want you to bust an artery and die. Through luck or just thousands and thousands of coincidences, the Jewish people have somehow survived the last 5000 years. But if you’re gone, who will defend the Jewish people then?? How can they survive the next 5000 years, or even the next 5000 minutes, without you there, constantly standing up to anyone who thinks they are both paradoxically oppressed but the best people evolution has ever wrought?! So I’ll do you a favor and agree with you even though you’re wrong, because the Jewish people cannot go without such a defender and we must keep you alive until Hasidic Jesus comes back on his unicorn and erects a wall around Israel. Or you can just say that Jews aren’t so persecuted in France after all, whatever
Democracy peace theory seems naive. Either the conflict between the states is redefined not to be war (as when they use proxy states), or one of the states is redefined as a non-democracy by the No True Scotsman argument.
Here’s one ranking of democracies. What is the highest ranked “second” country to be involved in a war? (e.g., a 12-18 is higher than a 3-28)
The US (15) attacked Panama (38), but Panama was likely much lower on the list then. Likewise, Argentina (40) attacked the UK (13), but again, that Argentina was a dictatorship. Serbia (45) was the enfant terrible of the Balkans, but perhaps they were lower then. I think that is starting to get into real territory, though.
I do not think there is in principle any reason why one democracy wouldn’t attack another. Democracies sell their wars as moral crusades, but it is easy to propagandize a population into demonizing another country, and if anything the popular will might make wars far more total and horrifying.