But I’m afraid that the more Palestinian houses you blow up - no matter how justified it was because there were terrorists firing rockets out of the building - the more Palestinians will come to support Hamas, their actual best interests notwithstanding.
And by that same token, the more Palestinian rockets continue targeting civilians in Israel, the more Israelis will vote for leaders who take a hard stance against the Palestinians, the worse Palestinian lives will get, and the more Hamas will cement its hold over the Palestinian people.
But take that a step further: once Side B figures that they can’t meaningfully wage a conventional war, and so wages unconventional war — well, wouldn’t it eventually become “frankly silly” to expect Side A to keep on sticking to conventional war?
That’s why I keep going back to @octopus upthread. If WWII was in 2021, we would just stop outside of Berlin because there are innocent civilians inside. Old women, children, and people just going about their lives. We can’t bomb them because even though there is an SS dude living in their apartment building, what are they supposed to do?
And if we keep putting demands on them, won’t Hitler just gain their trust more? Won’t it just prove that the Jewish conspiracy in the world has taken over?
Israel has absolutely no interest in the sort of military occupation you are describing. That would require Israeli troops in Gaza’s streets for decades at least. There is no political will to throw that many Israeli soldiers away in that kind of occupation, not to mention that it would undoubtedly be met with much more opposition and insurgency than the Allies met in Berlin.
There is an ongoing state of war that exists between Hamas and Israel (as well as between Israel and many of its neighbors). It’s not always a hot war, but it goes on 24/7, only occasionally becoming a hot war, as now.
That said, getting into a military conflict with a vastly superior force is unmitigated stupidity. Doing it repeatedly transcends the English language’s capability to express just how stupid it is. In the past, it seemed like Hamas was pursuing such a “strategy” in the hope the international community would force Israel to stop its violence and make concessions. That still hasn’t happened in any meaningful way. The alternative explanation that Hamas only really cares about staying in power relies on the extreme stupidity of the Palestinian people not to perceive the cause-and-effect between Hamas’ (and Islamic Jihad’s) violence and the inexorable death and devastation which follow them courtesy the Israeli response.
I think it’s more than clear no one in the leadership of Hamas or Israel wants peace as it would mean giving up their maximalist demands and would prove an impossible sell to their own people. That means there can be no peace, only managed conflicts.
Nevertheless, the bottom line is always the same: there’s enough land and barely enough resources (i.e., water) to sustain everyone provided they show a minimum level of co-existence, i.e., not try to kill one another. That the leadership of both sides seem unwilling to do that is a sign they not only deserve what they get, they deserve each other.
It isn’t any more stupid than it was for Germans to decide that they only lost the Great War because the politicians and the Jews stabbed them in the back, or for diehard Trump supporters to decide that the election was stolen, or for the KKK to recruit its members. It’s that all-so-classic narrative that has swayed the downtrodden into doing great evil again and again across many cultures:
“Your misfortunes have nothing to do with your country’s past decisions. They are the fault of THAT GROUP OF OTHERS, and you should focus all your anger and attention on how THOSE OTHERS have wronged you.”
It is, unfortunately, the most classic line in the dictators handbook.
Why do you keep talking about WWII? They literally have no meaningful comparison. The apt comparison would be if WWII was in 1967, we beat the Germans, and we still had Germany occupied and Germany had no functioning self governance. Are you familiar with a version of WWII that I am not, namely one in which 60 years after the Allied victory we still had the Axis under military occupation?
Most likely one of the few ways you can have a decent shot (just as hot, not a guarantee) is to improve the quality of life in Palestine. This isn’t actually a crazy idea and has been tried in the past in fits and starts. Namely a strategy that seeks to improve Palestinian quality of life as a first step, before attempting any political negotiations. This would look like increased aid being sent to the Palestinians (we actually cancelled most aid to them under Trump and AFAIK have not resumed it), and generally improved building out of Palestinian infrastructure and etc. But such a strategy is a slow one, it likely won’t yield results in a years sorta time frame but more like a decades one, and it would require a lot of patience and consistency from Israel.
I am disturbed to see events escalate and hope for a quick return to peace. Without getting into the many issues and resentments on all sides, I hope a fair and mutually satisficing solution can be found. It is now even more obvious that the negotiations sponsored by Trump are not that solution. One also wonders why this is happening now, in particular. The likely answers to this question do not encourage me.
As a general rule, countries do not make concessions to their enemies in the course of a war. I am not merely referring to the current hostilities, but the ongoing state of war that has existed for decades (or longer, depending on when one starts counting).
The West Bank exemplifies “improve the quality of life” arguments. As far as I know, no Israeli bombs are going off there and there has been some development over the years; but as a token of possibilities that await the Palestinians - to say nothing of Hamas - if they renounce violence, it sets an underwhelming example for those bent on maximalist demands…and there are many of them (on all sides).
I think the real solution is to redraw the map of the region to ensure (as best as possible) that all peoples have security and access to resources. It hardly matters that the potential success of such an effort would be far from guaranteed because it has no practical chance of ever happening owing to emotional and faith-based claims on land, as well as the ginormous financial costs that would be entailed.
Btw, I thought Biden restored at least some financial aid to the Palestinians.
There’s only one longterm solution to the problem, and that’s for the Arab world to stop merely talking about helping the Palestinians and in fact put their money where their mouth is. They need to spend tens of billions of dollars annually, year after year, decade after decade, relentlessly building up Palestine. Build desalination plants, solar farms, give it a first-rate infrastructure. Dangle high salaries to lure talent and professionals back from abroad. Until then, desperate people will keep doing desperate things.
It most certainly is a evil thing. And even more evil as Netanyahu is either pushing it or taking advantage of it.
The Islamic terrorists are of course very very wrong also. We have a perfect symphony of evil and wrongness going on here and the victims are the innocent Israelis and Palestinians who would rather have some sort of peace. However, the Palestinians keep voting for terrorists and the Israelis are still voting for Netanyahu’s party, although somewhat less.
It works for Hamas as terrorism and the often over reaction to the terrorism keeps them in power.
They do not want peace. They would be voted out and likely imprisoned if real peace came. They stay in power and get fat on aid money by continuing the terrorism.
I don’t view “let’s just redraw the map” to be any real solution. The map has been redrawn a number of times already and a lot of Palestinians are pretty pissed about it. Israel isn’t ever going to leave East Jerusalem or the larger West Bank settlements unless someone finds an army that can push them out. So people need to accept that and find a way to work around it or just concede there is no fixing it, which frankly may be the case.