The US gave Israel $3.1 billion last year.
If only I could get the US to hate me, I’d have it made, eh?
If you’re too drunk to drive home and your friend takes away your keys, has he backstabbed you?
When our foreign allies criticized Jim Crow, were they backstabbing the US?
Wait, so Poland taking former German land east of the Oder-Neisse isn’t recognized by international law?
Also, “genocide” against Palestinians, are you joking? Their population keeps rising. Their economy has malls, corporations, and even billionaires (a real genocide project like Auschwitz didn’t produce many of those).
The settlements are supposed to be incentive for the Palestinians to come to the table, and accept a non-Muslim state in the region in return for something. They keep rejecting, Obama keeps thinking excusing that would make Muslims like Americans better (that idea has failed for 8 years), and on the conflict goes.
Throw in Russia taking East Prussia after WW2 ,its amazing how Far Left & Left havi it in for Israel (The Tiny Jewish State) even Non Practicing Ethnic Jewish Liberals buy into it …
And the U.S. vetoed a very similar resolution in 2011, but abstained this time because not only has Israel not removed any of the settlements which their own parliament has not recognized the legality thereof, but settlement building has increased since 2011. Basically, Israel and the Republican establishment are upset that the U.S. has (until 1/20/2017) stopped giving Israel a diplomatic blank check in addition to the virtual financial blank check that has not stopped.
Also, the resolution has no teeth via an enforcement mechanism to impose sanctions or any other consequences on Israel unless it either stops building settlements or removes existing ones. It’s basically just a statement of concern.
Yeah, they’re up to a $1,638 GDP per capita. Gaza has a 44% unemployment rate. They’re doing great!
The world wouldn’t stand for a Holocaust of the Palestinians. But, with the US backing them, they might be able to slowly squeeze them tighter and tighter, drive up the population density, drive down the economy and life expectancy, and go from there.
That’s pretty funny, considering that Sharon rejected a freeze on settlement building as part of the Road Map to Peace. Oops.
And seriously, has that kind of negative reinforcement ever worked? It didn’t induce the British to surrender, or the NVA, or the IRA, or end the civil rights movement. Instead, “do what I want or I’ll keep screwing you over” seems to only harden resolve.
That was (belatedly) resolved in the Treaty of Warsaw in 1970 prior to re-unification and the German-Polish Border Treaty in 1990 following re-unification.
Both Poland, Russia and the Czech Republic all had historic claims on what became Germany. I’m not going to debate the validity of those claims but it wasn’t purely a naked land grab.
Add Tibet and Xinjiang Provinces of China if you want to have more recent examples. But since say 1960 I’m not coming up with any major examples of taking land by force and having it generally accepted. Hell, 1960 was before I was born.
Israeli settlements are a bad idea for a peaceful settlement.
I’m having trouble coming up with the poster that lives in such a settlement. I think there is an “ask the Israeli settler” thread out there…
Can’t have those outside agitators trying to interfere with the Israeli way of life.
Funnily enough, Wallace talked about the great economic opportunities for black Alabamians too.
Shinna Minna Ma, isn’t it?
Just stop; the populations of both WB and Gaza have only gone up in recent years but decades too. That alone is antithetical to genocide. That you introduce such a loaded term to the debate shows that people like you are not interested in peace between Israel and “Palestine;” you’re only interested in ending Israel or else you wouldn’t knowingly lie about it. On GDP, you gave a false number too.
He destroyed all Gaza settlements and evacuated all Israelis from Gaza. What did Israel get for it? More rockets, each of which can kill at least one person.
Er, I never used the g-word.
Here’s my cite. I literally took the first Google result for “Palestine GDP per capita”, since I knew it was low, but didn’t recall the figure.
So how are settlements a trade chip for peace negotiations, when Sharon’s government refused to have them be part of a peace negotiation??? Which, incidentally, was accepted by the PA and not by Israel. And you said it was the Palestinians who reject everything…
And are you seriously suggesting that the Gaza pullout was done for the benefit of the Gazans?
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The Israeli settlements are illegal, according to the international law. The number of even half-reputable international jurists claiming otherwise can be counted on one hand.
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What might have been acceptable 50 or 200 years ago is not acceptable anymore, so comparisons far in the past are irrelevant.
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The internationally accepted border of Israel follows the “green line”, resulting from the 1948 armistice of the Independence war. The green line contained territory almost twice as large as was decided in the U.N. 1947 division plan of Israel and Palestine.
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Most of the occupied territories from the 6-day war are still under military rule. This is so already 50 years. Some of the territories (Golan, East Jerusalem) were formally annexed.
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The Palestinian population in the non-annexed territories has no political rights in Israel and specifically cannot vote in the Israeli elections.
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About 21% of the Israeli population inside the old borders are Arab-Israelis, enjoying full citizenship rights. However, the main reason for Israel not to annex the “West Bank” and Gaza would be that either Israel offers citizenship to those people (resulting in Jews being in a minority and Israel turning into a majority Arab state) or not offering citizenship, thus being an Apartheid state. Both options are non-sustainable and thus the current “limbo” state is maintained.
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The main purpose of the settlements is to prevent any solution including a Palestinian state and and making the situation irreversible. I cannot fathom the long-term thoughts of the religious right who push this since it is all couched in eschatological terms.
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It is a very small minority of the population having these principles, however they are extremely influential due to reasons too complex for this post. It is however to be noted that the hard core of the settlement movement is very close in their religious beliefs to Evangelicalism in the US, and actually have lots of Evangelical allies. Also many of them are/have been American citizens.
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Thus in my view, the current SC resolution is in the benefit of Israel, somehow an “intervention” of a good friend to an addicted person. Obama had always the best interests of Israel at heart. The problem is that he was not assertive/aggressive enough.
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I must say that Trump’s reaction, while being critical to Obama, as expected, was relatively muted. He seems to be much less in debt to the right wing of AIPAC. BTW, I am certain that Hillary would have vetoed that resolution.
All in all, this is a very positive development.
DISCLAIMER: I am an Israeli living in Israel.
This is a warning for accusing another poster of lying. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner.
[/moderating]
Is there a scintilla of difference between the “g” word and the “h” word?
I’m not a fan of the settlements, and I strongly believe Israel should stop, if not roll them back. But this bit of political cowardice by Obama drops him down a notch in my estimation. He would never have done this if an election were on the line, but instead fires a shot as he’s running out the door. I’m very disappointed in him.
Recall the context: Derek said there was no genocide of the Palestinians happening, as their population was increasing. I said that the world wouldn’t stand for a Holocaust of Palestinians - that makes it pretty darn clear that I’m saying that mass killings aren’t happening - but that settlements were another way to achieve the same end.
Then Derek claimed that using the word (Holocaust or genocide, it’s unclear which) “shows that people like [me] are not interested in peace between Israel and “Palestine;” [we’re] only interested in ending Israel or else * wouldn’t knowingly lie about it.”
By “lie about it”, I can only guess that he means lie about a genocide of Palestinians, which I pointedly didn’t claim.
If you think I’m in the wrong here, you’ll have to elaborate.
When it comes to doing the right thing, better late than never.
This is how it’s being reported here…
I’m pleased with what my govt is doing
I wish people would stop posturing and come out and say what they really think.
I suspect many Israelis are so fed up with constant attacks that they see zero chance the palestinians would ever agree in mass to peace, so they may as well expand out and take the territory they conquered after being assaulted and BEATING the ones who assaulted them.
The palestinians, with that legendary arab pride will never accept this “indignity” of having jews living on the land they lost because they picked a fight and lost not only the war, but land on top. If that is the real sentiment, stop lying and come out and say it. The jews and arabs don’t want the same things, the arabs want Israel gone, and the Israelis are tired of pretending peace is possible so they may as well just fortify and expand in the territory they control.
Is it all legal? Moral?
It simply is.
it was insinuated that there was some “goal” of genocide against Palestinians. Nothing that’s happening on part of Israel indicates a desire to genocide anyone or actual genociding anyone. Additionally, I was refuting the common insinuation that Israel is presently committing (vs hopes to) some “genocide” against Palestinians or anything that resembles it. Israel only bombs/uses military against Palestinians when provoked.
The Palestinians, on the other hand, for years have, on whims, indiscriminately blown themselves up against Israelis, hijacked planes around the globe, turned down good faith peace offers, denied The Holocaust and promoted other Nazi ideas and Protocols, and straight up act like radical Islamic savages. Israel’s other enemies, like Iran, sponsor and support all those things as well as seek to nuke Israel for no good reason. Contrast. And no, Mondoweiss, Electronic Jihad i mean Electronic Intifada, and Al Jazeera are not real news/editorial sources.