It is pit worthy: Sean Hannity vs Michael Moore

[Starving_Artist]

@Bosstone

Actually, you claimed first that elucidator was dishonest, when at best you two disagree.

Not so at all. I can point (yet again) to the dishonest post elucidator made if you like.

@Bosstone

What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, and all that.

I agree wholeheartedly. And as the goose I can point to elucidator’s dishonest post, so as the gander how about you point to mine? After all, you’re the one who came charging in here accusing me of dishonesty. So how’s about it, babe…cough it up.

And another point: while I might [understandably] quarrel with your assessment that I shit in every post I make (or in any, for that matter), the point remains that shitting in a post is not the same as being dishonest. So we’re back again to where you seem incapable of separating disagreement from dishonesty, and so we’re also back again to where you are speaking out of arrogance and elitism rather than honesty or fact.

[MeanOldLady]

@Rigamarole

Basically they are both shameless propogandist douches.

Heh. I don’t know why calling people douches makes me laugh so much, but it does.

I found the whole exchange to be delightfully boring. Thirty minutes of two doughy old partisan hacks trying out-talking-points each other.

[kidchameleon]

@Boozahol_Squid_P.I

As best I can tell from this video, he thinks the opposite of capitalism is Christianity. He was saying so to needle Hannity, though.

I caught Moore talking about his film with Bill Maher. I’m not a big Maher fan, but at least he seemed grounded in reality. Maher asked what Moore’s proposal to capitalism was and he said democracy, the opposite of capitalism. Maher proposed that socialism would be a better opposite, but Moore pooh-poohed him. He then went on to say that capitalism (in America) was rigged and that only the wealthy could become wealthy, ignoring the fact that the list of richest Americans is filled with self-made individuals, such as Buffet, Gates and Ellison.

[elucidator]

Really? So when you say “filled with”, are you saying that the majority of the richest Americans are self-made entrepreneurs, or only that there are a few scattered amongst them?

[gonzomax]

@kidchameleon

I caught Moore talking about his film with Bill Maher. I’m not a big Maher fan, but at least he seemed grounded in reality. Maher asked what Moore’s proposal to capitalism was and he said democracy, the opposite of capitalism. Maher proposed that socialism would be a better opposite, but Moore pooh-poohed him. He then went on to say that capitalism (in America) was rigged and that only the wealthy could become wealthy, ignoring the fact that the list of richest Americans is filled with self-made individuals, such as Buffet, Gates and Ellison.

Actually the list of the wealthy are populated with Kennedys, Lodges, Rockerfellers, Mellons and old money. The exceptions you grasp onto are just that. Your financial station in life is greatly dependent upon your birth.
We all love the stories of people who became wealthy and successful. But they are not the norm. The wealthy own us and they know it. Some of us just refuse to admit it.

[kidchameleon]

@elucidator

Really? So when you say “filled with”, are you saying that the majority of the richest Americans are self-made entrepreneurs, or only that there are a few scattered amongst them?

Well of the ten wealthiest Americans, four are Walmart heirs, four are entrepreneurs (the three above plus Michael Bloomberg) and the other two are the Koch brothers, who I’m not sure if the grew up wealthy or helped build their father’s business with him.

Delving into the next ten is another 7 entrepreneurs and three heirs(who knew M&M-Mars was worth THAT much?).

Sp 4 or 6 of the top 10 and at least a majority of the top 20, it’s hardly an assurance that one need be born wealthy to even become super wealthy in this nation.

[Kearsen]

@elucidator

Really? So when you say “filled with”, are you saying that the majority of the richest Americans are self-made entrepreneurs, or only that there are a few scattered amongst them?

If it was easy, everyone would be rich, ya know?

[kidchameleon]

@gonzomax

Actually the list of the wealthy are populated with Kennedys, Lodges, Rockerfellers, Mellons and old money. The exceptions you grasp onto are just that.

The Forbes 400 has one Rockefeller (at 144) and one Kennedy (of the Atlanta Cox family). There are no Lodges or Mellons in the list.

[elucidator]

Even rich people have daughters. Who marry. And change their names. No, seriously, that’s a true fact, you could look it up!

[kidchameleon]

@elucidator

Even rich people have daughters. Who marry. And change their names. No, seriously, that’s a true fact, you could look it up!

Then you, Gonzo or whoever can go figure out a family tree for the richest folks.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@kidchameleon

I caught Moore talking about his film with Bill Maher. I’m not a big Maher fan, but at least he seemed grounded in reality. Maher asked what Moore’s proposal to capitalism was and he said democracy, the opposite of capitalism. Maher proposed that socialism would be a better opposite, but Moore pooh-poohed him. He then went on to say that capitalism (in America) was rigged and that only the wealthy could become wealthy, ignoring the fact that the list of richest Americans is filled with self-made individuals, such as Buffet, Gates and Ellison.

Democracy a political system, capitalism is an economic one. They’re both founded on the same theory: people get to decide what’s best for themselves.
Socialism is a style of gov\ernment, an entirely different animal from either of them, although not very functional when c9mbined with capitalism. A Christian theocracy, founded on the New Testament, wouldn’t be very different from a socialist government ,but both are poor replacements as an ‘opposite’.

[SteveG1]

@Richard_Parker

I know there are some people, even on this very board, who believe that complexity is an excuse for equivocation. They believe that to be politically courageous is to boil every position down to a soundbite and run with it. Deliberation, nuance, and admission of insufficient information are signs of cowardice to these people. But they are wrong. The world is complicated. The financial crisis is complicated. Terrorism is complicated. The people who reduce them to soundbites are out to sell you something, not educate you.

I felt this needed to be repeated. Very well said.

[sqweels]

@Rigamarole

IMoore is absolutely a hypocrite with his capitalist-bashing considering the fact that capitalism has made him a very rich man.

Moore makes money because large numbers of people are willing to pay a fairly small amount of money to see his movies. He doesn’t act as a middleman playing games with large amouts of money that other people entrust to him.

And I don’t think the rest of us should give the big financial institutions a pass just because some folks shoot the messenger that is Michael Moore.