It it enough to walk away from Omelas?

[Hello_Again]

@spark240

The precise point (or at least the main one) of the story is to pose the ethical question: is it right to trade the suffering of innocents for the greater good?

They tested the polio vaccine on institutionalized, retarded children without the consent of them OR their parents. It turned out to work, except for one bad batch that only killed or permanently paralyzed a few. This is practically the definition of trading the suffering of innocents for the greater good.

Want to walk away from the “omelas” of the polio vaccine?

Anyone?

its one thing to say you will work to create a higher standard for future acts (ie, informed consent laws). Quite another to say you will refuse the benefit, always and forever.

[Polycarp]

@Finagle

Do they have bacon and mushrooms? With cheddar? Cause if so, I’m going to have trouble walking away from omelets.

Sorry. That’s how I’ve always read the title of this story in my mind.

Ah, well, “You cannot make Omelas without breaking eggs,” as the old proverb goes.

What?

[Chronos]

They tested the polio vaccine on institutionalized, retarded children without the consent of them OR their parents. It turned out to work, except for one bad batch that only killed or permanently paralyzed a few. This is practically the definition of trading the suffering of innocents for the greater good.

Want to walk away from the “omelas” of the polio vaccine?

Completely different. The continued existence of the polio vaccine does not depend on the continued suffering of those unwitting test subjects, but the continued existence of Omelas (or at least, its existence as a utopia) does depend on the continued suffering of the neglected child.

[Wilson]

It’s a little known fact that a significant number of the ones who leave Omelos wind up, among other things, getting really into cooking, in particular stir-fry.

They would be The Ones Who Wok Away From Omelas.

[kaylasdad99]

@MrDibble

I think one thing being forgotten is that the ones who walk away don’t just go out in the world in general. They go somewhere specific. I like to think it’s a place where they can work at undoing the evil that is Omelas.

I’d like to think that, too, MrDibble. But it’s never occurred to me to think so before, largely on the strength of this:

@Ursula K. LeGuin

Each alone, they go west or north, towards the mountains. They go on.

To me, this has always suggested that they have no common destination, let alone a common self-imposed mission.

[kaylasdad99]

@BigT

Is it public domain, or not? If I would be breaking the law to do it for free, then I won’t be able to for a while.

To the best of my knowledge it is not in the public domain. I have just sent an email to the academic whose website has the best copy I have found, and asked him if he can provide assurance that he only posts material that he has an actual right to republish. If he can, I will happily provide a direct link to his reprint of the story, and you may proceed.

Possibly all I will have managed to do is spook him into taking it down, and I really hope I haven’t done that.

If we can’t reach a resolution on the issue that way, I’ll see what other avenues I can explore.

[kaylasdad99]

@Little_Nemo

But that’s the central premise of the whole problem. Obviously the problem is easily resolved if you ignore the premise. Except that if you ignore the premise you’re no longer dealing with same problem so the original problem is still unresolved.

Well, to me, the original problem is: how do I contend with the knowledge that the happiness I have enjoyed up to now is still being paid for with the suffering of an innocent non-volunteer?

Sorry, I must have failed to make that clear.

[kaylasdad99]

@kaylasdad99

I have just sent an email to the academic whose website has the best copy I have found, and asked him if he can provide assurance that he only posts material that he has an actual right to republish. If he can, I will happily provide a direct link to his reprint of the story, and you may proceed.

Update on the above: I have just received a response from said academic, who states that he had been under the impression that he had successfully broken the link quite some time ago, at the request of the publisher.

I can confirm that I saw this link some years ago, and that at some time subsequent to that, I found that it had been removed.

Sorry, BigT. I’ll hunt around and see if I can get this story to you in a way that satisfies your scruples.

[Chronos]

Here’s a list of collections it’s been published in, if you can find any of those in your local library.

[MrDibble]

@kaylasdad99

I’d like to think that, too, MrDibble. But it’s never occurred to me to think so before, largely on the strength of this:To me, this has always suggested that they have no common destination, let alone a common self-imposed mission.

To me, it merely suggests that the way there isn’t necessarily clear. You could even say … not a straight road, if you get my drift.

Or maybe it’s like Tanelorn- it finds those in need, not necessarily the other way around.

I like to think that Walking Away is only the passing of the first test, and there are other, and harder test to come. Probably two more, if the usual Rules apply.