My point was that if something can puncture the can, something can puncture the bag. I won’t argue with the fact that it’s good practice to separate these things, but if I had a bag among my food-carrying bags that contained a can of poison that had ruptured, I would not assume that the food items had not been contaminated simply because they were in separate bags, be they paper or plastic. I won’t blithely trust grocery bags to contain dangerous chemicals, and if I was that concerned about the bug spray rupturing, I would not keep it in the same trunk as my veggies.
No amount of stupidity by the bagger justifies the actions of the customer in this case. The customer’s response to the irresponsibility or inattentiveness of the bagger seems pretty over-the-top to me; I think it’s entirely possible that race was a factor in the flipped-outedness of his reaction. We just don’t have enough information to decide either way, so your original rant was unjustified.
That said, though, I’m not arguing that the motivation for the attack should have anything to do with the charges or the penalty for the crime. Spraying insecticide in a guy’s face is spraying insecticide in a guy’s face, regardless of the race of the parties involved or the thoughts that were going through their heads.
Which you did, by complaining mostly about the race card.
If you looked at my first post, I said I thought it was entirely possible that what happened was not racially motivated. Some people here have a problem understanding how that could be, but I don’t. I just think you’re a dope for pitting the kid for “losing your sympathy” by feeling the way he does about what happened. I was pretty clear about it, too.
You don’t need to talk about white liberals and guilt and your bullshit. I know how you feel about those things. You made it clear by saying you’d lost your sympathy for this kid because he “played the race card.” That’s what annoyed me about your post: you reacted based on these issues that have nothing to do with the kid in the story. The kid, even if he’s an idiot, ‘lost your sympathy’ because you have problems with PC-ness and liberal guilt and a whole bunch of crap, real or imagined. That’s the real ‘priorities’ issue. Your sympathies seem to be outweighed by your feelings about this political junk. It has nothing to do with the board being sacred, I like the trivial stuff.
The argument for hate crime legislation is usually that a hate crime is not merely targeting the direct victim of the crime, but is further intended to intimidate everyone of the same class as the victim. A Jim Crow-style lynching with a side of cross burning is about a lot more than just killing the poor guy at the end of the rope: it’s also an attempt to terrify the black population into silence and subservience. Addressing that secondary effect by attaching larger penalties to the crime does not seem entirely unreasonable, although I do agree that a lot of crimes that are prosecuted as hate crimes do not fit the above description. Certainly, the assault described in the OP does not sound like a hate crime under that definition, although I don’t see how one can reasonably argue that race did not play any role in the assault. At the very least, screaming racial epithets while committing a violent assault is pretty clear evidence of severe racist tendencies, even if you can show that the guy would have assaulted a white person for doing the same thing.
No, but I may have thought, “I’m not following you’re line of reasoning at all.”
It does seem that you have gone from hostility to the victim for saying this may ahve been a hate crime, to hostility to the idea of a hate crime. If you don’t believe it’s ever valid to call something a hate crime, it is at least uncharitable and less than honest to say this individual’s statement “cheapens” the idea.
Ok, the guy MAY have been a racist, but it didn’t seem to me based upon the small amount of detail I got from the article I read online, that the motivation was his race. It might have been a factor, but the motivation was that the kid put the insecticide into the container.
I am making a niggling little point about the word “Motivated” that’s all. If you don’t like it that’s fine.
The OP seems to be suggesting that as long as there is something ELSE that pissed the attacker off, it’s impossible for him to be a racist.
There’s more “between,” than there is “lines,” in this story.
The dumb clerk sounds like he was unlucky enough to mess up a racist’s bag. It’s possible (ask me, it’s probable) that the clerk “failed to follow instructions” on purpose, after Mr. Carroll gave some indication of his racist attitudes in the first place. Just a theory.
In any case, if Carroll IS a racist, and made no bones about that while “following the directions” on the spray can, then “racially motivated” is not necessarily an inappropriate way to describe his actions. Especially if he “started it” by (according to entirely baseless theory) being a racist dick in the first place.
You’re talking about yourself, right? I mean, all it took was a one sentence mention of race in the article and it was enough for you to start foaming at the mouth. For all any of us know, the crime could have been racially motivated, but for some reason that possibility upsets you to the point where you have to start a pit thread without knowing all the facts.
God, you look pathetic.
Since the mere mentioning of race in the description of the assault troubles you so much, why aren’t you pitting the reporter? Again, for all we know, the victim may have made only a passing comment about race being a factor and the reporter took that comment and gave it more weight than it should have had. If, as you say, violence is violence, why not pit the reporter for adding a deeper subtext to the article than is necessary?
If the bagger was stupid; he could have simply had the kind of momentary lapse of judgment that people of average intelligence have al of the time. mswas, however, feels quite confident in declaring him “dumb”.
If the attack was racially motivated; according to mswas, we should never assume it was, even if the assaulter was using racial epithets. Apparently, we silly black people haven’t figured out that that kind of language is never a sign of bigotry; racism is just a figment of our imagination.
If the bagger “uses the ‘race card’ all of the time”; we don’t know if he claims that everything bad that happens to him is because he’s black, or if something that happened in this specific incident led him to the conclusion.
Furthermore, I think the whole idea of the “race card” is preposterous. While I have occasionally heard charges of racism that I thought were not well-founded, neither I, nor most black people I know blame racism for everything that’s not ideal in our lives. mswas seems to think it’s some kind of power we hold over long-oppressed white people, when in actuality, there are plenty of people like mswas who will routinely dismiss any charge of racism without knowing enough facts to make such a call.
Between the time the can of spray is off the shelf and the time it is bagged is it in your cart? Beside the food? Have you ever had a can of bug spray punture in transit?
I am not arguing that it is impossible, only that it is so unliklely as to be not worth worrying about. You are much more likely to be in an auto accident on the way home, in which case all of your food could be ruined, no matter how it is bagged.
Cheesesteak, are you mentally retarded? Serious question - I’m trying to figure out if your complete histrionic fit over something that isn’t even really germane to the discussion are caused by limited mental abilities or if you’re just clinging to your argument because you don’t want to admit that it’s baseless. Who the fuck cares anyway? Are you arguing that the action of tossing a can of bug spray in with food is so dangerous that one would be justified in responding by attacking the bagger with POISON? If not, why the fuck does it matter whether the grocery bagger potentially endangered the racist asshole who attacked him? You’re arguing over whether this is essentially a miniscule risk or a nonexistent one; unless you’re incredibly stupid, you obviously recognize that putting a can of bug spray into a bag of food is a pretty minor risk at worst.
Anyway, bug spray all have guards on them so they won’t spray. Look at one sometime. I mean, assuming you feel safe getting that close to POISON.
I didn’t say puncture, I said the button conveniently located on the top of the can could be depressed during transit, which would expel poison into the bag. The can is sealed, except for the part of the can that is designed to spray poison. That part is NOT sealed and it is NOT protected by a safety device.
The can is in a bag, stuffed into your trunk, rattling around as you go to and fro. In the cart, the can is sitting in full view in front of you, if it tips over or something hits the button, you can see it.
Every can of bug spray that I’ve bought has some kind of safety feature. A plug or plastic tab…something you have to release or pop out in order to active the button feature.
Yes, it is. Go get a can of Raid. Go on, I’ll wait.
Got one? Ok, good.
Now, look at the part on the top where the spray button is. See how it’s indented with respect to the rest of the top? That’s so that only your fat finger can fit in there to depress the sprayer. Take a can out of your pantry. Any one. Now mash the can down on top of the spray can. Nothing. Ok, sure you can probably find SOME oddball container that will fit. But, press the sprayer. It takes quite a bit of force to push it down. It’s not going to just happen randomly in your grocery bag on the way home. Additionally many (quite possibly all, I haven’t done a complete survey) of these containers have a safety which you must remove before you can spray it.
And so what if it DOES somehow discharge in your bag on the way home? Are you so hard of smelling that you can’t tell your food is now SOAKED WITH BUG SPRAY? Jebus. Bottom line: it ain’t dangerous, Sparky. At worst, it’s gotta be safer than driving to the store to GET the damn stuff in the first place. How many people have you heard of being poisoned by bug spray that accidentally went off in their grocery bags? Contrast that with how many people have gotten killed driving to the store. Get some perspective.
Indeed, perspective. What is it that I am suggesting? I’m suggesting that when you purchase household chemicals along with food, that you bag them separately. This is not exactly a hardship, nor is it difficult to remember, nor is it difficult to execute, nor is it expensive. It takes all of putting the can of ant spray in THIS bag instead of THAT bag. It is a tiny effort that could save a bag of food from being ruined.
For this, we had one person say that grocery store poison isn’t really dangerous. I’ve also been called crazy and retarded for advocating this viewpoint. I didn’t call anyone names or insult anyone’s intelligence, I’ve only provided my take on this topic and whatever little evidence I could muster, and I’m the one who needs perspective?
For the record, my can of Raid ant and roach spray (country fresh scent) does not have a guard or safety tab, my can of Raid wasp and hornet spray does have a safety tab.