I seem to oscillate between two approaches to life:
It’s all pointless. No matter what we do, how many great things we achieve, we will all age, wither away and die.
So what if it is all pointless? Just enjoy your time here!
I spend most of my time in state #2, but now and then, I’ll see something like old footage of a talk show from the 60’s or 70’s, where a young star/starlet is chatting with the host about his/her upcoming movie and other chit-chat, and I’ll compare it with all of today’s young stars/starlets on today’s talk shows doing the same thing, and it gets a bit depressing. It’s as if we are all part of this endless cycle where new generations come, think they are “happening” and “cool” and having fun, but they are just cogs in a big wheel of life and very soon they’ll be old and decrepit and looking at the next batch of young people doing all over again.
Basically, what Ecclesiastes says.
Then, after a while I get absorbed in what I’m doing (listening to music, watching TV, etc), and forget about the pointlessness and just enjoy life and enjoy the activities I do.
As I said, I spend most of my time in state #2.
What about you guys? Do you spend most of your time in state #1 or #2? Is there a way to reconcile these two approaches?
Also, it seems to me that you can be in state #2 in two ways
a) by simply forcing yourself to temporarily forget the ideas expressed in #1 (along the lines of “la la la I’m not listening”)
or
b) by always being aware of the ideas expressed in #1, but having the outlook that, despite those ideas, it is not something we should “cry” over, and we should just focus on the present and enjoy life.
Personally, a combination of (a) and (b) applies to my case.
I disagree with the premise that “it’s all pointless.” Just because there are boundaries to my significance does not mean that I have no significance.
(I assume you’re open to this line of discussion as well as the one you explicitly started in your own post. If you’re not, tell me so and I’ll back out.)
As usual when faced with a choice between A and B choice, I go for choice C :). Which in my case is : it’s all the more worth it *because *it’s pointless. And I quote :
As someone who is philosophically in the Existentialist-Absurdist-Nihilist band, I can relate.
It’s an old question. Hell, it’s a variation of the “To be, or not to be” question. The wisest answer I ever got was from Slartibartfast in one of the HHGTTG books, which was something to the effect of: “Hang the sense of it and just keep yourself busy”.
…so yeah, for me the choice boils down to distraction or depression. :eek:
You expressed my feelings better than I could have said things. I don’t think it’s all pointless. I think I’ve accomplished some pretty good things in my life so far, and I hope (and expect) to accomplish more in the rest of my life. Some things that may last beyond my lifetime.
I think the thing to realise is that even if you are but a single, transitory cog in the great wheel of human history, how satisfactory your life is principally depends on the technologies and doctrines set down by people in the past. Your ability to enjoy your life is principally in thanks to the work of those people. If they hadn’t done all that work, your life would have sucked. So in the interest of self-interest, it is best to also try and improve the world for all mankind.
Assume you gain consciousness and you find yourself in a windowless room where people are having fun, dancing, etc. Once in a while the lights go out and when they come back one of the people has vanished from the room. No one knows where these people end up, if anywhere, or if they are still alive.
In this room, you can start to do some “impressive” things, like dance the longest without a break, jump the highest, etc, all of which take some effort to master. People in the room will be impressed with your achievements, and, even after you vanish from the room some people will still remember them. However, after enough time has passed, and after enough “generations” of people have come and left the room, nobody will remember you or how high you jumped or how long you could dance without a break.
So, in a sense, your accomplishments will have been pointless. If nobody remembers you or your accomplishments in the future, what is the point of accomplishing them?
The only reason I can see is for the sheer enjoyment that we are able to experience when we accomplish these things. There is no lasting reason. Our actions are all pointless (in the sense of having no grand or long-term purpose to them).
Since we do seem to be built to enjoy stuff that is pointless (listening to waves on the beach, writing an awesome one-line perl program that amazes your friends, finishing off a difficult sudoku puzzle, making a million dollars in the stock market, etc), I think the best thing to do is just enjoy our time here as much as possible, and that is done by doing the things that give you enjoyment.
Hmm . . . first, I don’t subscribe to the idea that because things don’t last forever they don’t matter. It doesn’t sound like the OP really does either, it sounds like he’s saying “Well, since I can’t have a permanent impact on the world, all I can accomplish is temporary happiness for myself. So I might as well do that.”
But there’s a third option: You can work for other people’s happiness. If I accept that it’s worth while to work to make the world a better place right now (even if ultimately it may not have much effect on the future), then it’s just as valid to try to make the world a better place by making other people happy.
I’m not saying you should neglect your own happiness for the sake of everyone else, but I think you can do both. Try to achieve happiness for yourself, while also trying to bring happiness to others. Sure, in a million years maybe no one will care, but at least this moment can be better than it otherwise would be.
Have you considered your definition of “pointless” carefully?
If “significance” (I’ll use that loosely as the opposite of “pointless”) requires immortality, at either a personal or universe level, current science suggests you won’t achieve it (nor will the universe). All that exists is pointless.
So what? What has the lack of immortality to do with the capacity to enjoy your existence?
When I was younger I bounced back and forth between exactly the two viewpoints that you described. Now, however, I’ve decided that human actions are not necessarily pointless or temporary. Actions that are right can have consequences that are eternal and true at the deepest level of meaning. I have a folder by my bed that contains various writings intended to inspire. Whenever I slide towards feeling despondent, I pick something out of there and read it. One of those is a letter by Martin Luther King, which includes this:
There’s an affirmation of faith. King believed that his cause was just and morally right. He also believed that the things he was doing would have an everlasting effect.
Kind of confused about the topic. To me it sounds as though your stuck in the “whats the meaning of life” and peoples’ purpose with in it. Or you often come to the conclusion that there is no purpose. Sorry if I’ve taken the topic out of context. I read it twice and that’s how it reads to me.
If so, I don’t believe anyone can give you an appropriate answer in which you would be satisfied with. Been there, and still there.
In my own personal opinion. Everything has a purpose in the reality of life. Most of the time, you chose what kind of influence you will have on those/things that share life with you. Cause and effect applies to all. Whether you take it all with you after life is not a subject that I care to get into since there is no definitive answer that applies to all.
I’m confused about it too , that’s why it’s hard to put my thoughts into words.
Let me try to put it this way: Assume you find out that you will die in exactly 10 minutes. In addition to taking a few minutes to tell your loved ones how much they mean to you:
Do you finish washing the dishes? Wouldn’t it be pointless?
Do you finish helping your kid with homework?
Do you sit down and enjoy a cup of your favorite ice cream?
It seems to me that if you do anything other than what will bring you some pleasure for those last 10 minutes, it will be pointless. I guess saving someone else’s life in those ten minutes is not pointless, but most of the stuff we do in everyday life is not on such a grand scale as saving someone’s life.
So, even though helping your kids with their homework is helping someone else (someone you love), I don’t think anyone would spend their last 10 minutes doing it. It’s not “10-minutes-left-to-live”-worthy.
Of course, we all live longer than 10 minutes, but still, life is quite short, and I’m using the above analogy to try to get across my thoughts on the “pointlessness” of most of our everyday actions. We should be doing “N-years-left-to-live”-worthy stuff, which are either grand things that help others, or just do what brings pleasure/enjoyment.
People just doing what brings them pleasure/enjoyment/money is how we built our civilization. I happen to be watching James Burke’s series Connections again (my wife got it for my on DVD for Christmas), and it’s full of stories about how ordinary people throughout history made the world change simply because they wanted to make things a little better for themselves. Just a tiny bit at a time.
Okay, I think I’m grasping your question.
I’m still interpreting that what ever we do in life probable doesn’t matter assuming that it will not matter to us after death.
I’m sorry that I keep bringing up matters concerning the will to live or the point of existence. Through my experience with a close friend of mine, who obsessed over these very same things, managed to successfully commit suicide. I can only assume he was searching for a reason to not go through with it. So, this topic conjures memories of that. Not to summarize or compare this topic to you since I don’t actually know you.
Just know that everything that you do, does matter and has a point. Lets take your analogy for instance.
Do you finish washing the dishes? Wouldn’t it be pointless?
Yes, to you it would be pointless if you decide to put no significance behind it. But say your son was aware that you were dying in 10 minutes as well.
It is possible your son could read very deep into this as I am. This could be a defining moment about you through his eyes. Possibly being a defining moment for your son.
*His father was strong, even in the face of death. He carried on as if it were nothing. *
Your son*may * go on to do something great with his life. Maybe to pass it on to the rest of society.
Or
My father chose to wash the dishes over spending time with me in his dying moments!!! What a son of a b***!*
And go on to become a menace to society or to those that surround him.
Either one of those would affect/effect him and others greatly. It would just be a matter of his perception.
Everything that appears insignificant to you can be or is very significant to others.
I think the trick is to find out something that is meaningful to you.
It may not be fun, but it imparts a deeper sense of lasting satisfaction. It might be working to save an endangered species, bring art to the masses, encourage the exploration of outer space, or help children learn to read.
You may not be stuck in the ‘just having fun’ trap, but you will find that life can have great meaning.
Think for a moment about what would be meaningful to you. Lets say you are god and have all the power in the universe, what conditions would you create to make something meaningful?
My guess is that you will come up with nothing using your current standards. So now there is no such thing as meaning, and therefore nothing can be it’s opposite (what is the opposite of something that doesn’t exist?)
What you are really doing is sabotaging yourself. You’re creating this imaginary concept (meaning) that you can never obtain or even imagine, and you feel bad that you never have it.
If you can come up with something that has meaning, what is it? Chances are that it is pretty well within your grasp.
Sometimes a burden. Just as anyone with a degree in liberal arts.
).
, that’s why it’s hard to put my thoughts into words.