coming… going… whatever … glad i could help make you smile lol
We are, each of us angels with only one wing;
and we can only fly by
embracing one another
Oh yeah… and Tracer… haha ill get ya when you least expect it hon
We are, each of us angels with only one wing;
and we can only fly by
embracing one another
Ummmm…I see another out of context quote in Sue’s future…
You say “cheesy” like that’s a BAD thing.
I guess you can rest well in your beautiful stadium. No, I guess not.>>>
New Comiskey Park is actually a very nice place to watch a ballgame. The upper deck is a nosebleed, sure, but I always sat in the bleachers. I miss old Comiskey, but that’s life. As for “resting well,” I don’t understand. The White Sox will never leave Chicago, with the stadium deal they have. If its a crack about the neighborhood, well, that’s just ignorant. If its a crack about poor attendance, it has always been a fact that when the Sox have had poor teams, they don’t draw as well. Its a way we send a message to the owners, to put a better product on the field. Something lost on Cubs fans.
Wonderful ownership? Whoops, not there either.>>>
I have to disagree here, too. Reinsdorf gets a lot of crap because of his stance in the strike, and for the “White Flag” trade. But if you look back with 20/20 hindsight, the players traded away haven’t amounted to squat, and the Sox got a bevy of young players. You would be hard pressed to find a knowledgable baseball man who would say the Sox aren’t moving in a positive direction. But look at Cubs ownership. They’ve got the money to build an organization like the Braves or Yankees, but they choose not too. Which Chicago team has a more wonderful owner?
Compelling story lines on the field? Not since Robin Ventura was smacked around by Nolan Ryan.>>>>
Back to back MVPs by Frank Thomas is not compelling? I find the exciting young players the Sox are bringing up, like Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, and Chris Singleton VERY compelling stories. They’ve got a smart, savvy manager. Other than Sammy Sosa and Kerry Wood’s performance in a single game, there hasn’t been a compelling story line on the North Side since Maddux refused to sign.
Pennant chases? Not since Reinsdorf sold them out a couple of years ago.>>>
As I have repeated in many posts, you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times the Cubs have been in the hunt in the last 25-30 years. The Sox, on the other hand, have been competetive in a little under half of those years. When the cubs can start by putting together back to back .500 seasons in this generation, you can get back to me on that point.
Nationwide adoration? No, that might be another Chicago team.>>> You mean the Bulls, right? Well, the Cubs devotion is born out a couple of decades of superstation WGN being on cable in such remote outlets as Keokuk and Boise, with nothing else on except soap operas in the afternoon. Bored housewives, nursing home residents, kids home from school in the summer, and geeky folks with nothing better to do became devoted the Cubs, but as a television product. This formed a large, devoted fan base of folks who had little baseball saavy, but liked the TV show. This is why, for example, that the average female Cubs fan is more concerned with whether her favorite “cute” ballplayers are in the lineup. This is why the Cubs gave a big money contract to Ryne Sandburg the same year they let Greg Maddux go. Ryno had established “cuteness” and TV aplomb. He was, for all intents and purposes, a TV star. WGN’s other big TV hit back in those days was Bozo’s Circus. They’d never let Bozo leave for greener pastures; he was the star of the show. In effect, Ryne Sandburg was Bozo.
Beloved announcers? 2 dead Cubs announcers are still more popular than good old Hawk Harrelson.>>>>
Two dead Cub announcers who happened to begin their careers in Chicago both primarily as announcers for the White Sox. All this hoopla over honoring Harry Carey by singing “Take Me Out to the Ballgame” during the 7th inning stretch? Bill Veeck suggested the stunt to Harry while Harry was announcing for the Sox. It caught on. Back in those days, Harry was viewed as an obnoxious, drunken fool on the North side. Once in the Cubs announcer’s booth, these same qualities endeared him to Cubs fans. Indeed, the whole Harry Carey persona, which became the cornerstone of the Cubs’ image and marketing, was created first for the White Sox. Harry left the White Sox because of a dispute with Reinsdorf over cable t.v. It was a terrible loss for the Sox. But it is ironic that the very man who shaped the public image most Cubs fans identify with developed it for the White Sox. (actually, for the Cardinals before that). So “beloved” as Harry may be, his connection to the Cubs has little to do with the Cubs, and everything to do with Harry the marketing genius.
Indeed, most of the Cubs marketing ploys in recent years, from theme days at the park, to the person of Sammy Sosa, orginated with the White Sox. I find it insulting to have Cub fans revel in such matters when the Sox have been doing the same thing for years, and been criticized because it was originated by Bill Veeck, or Reinsdorf, rather then the WASPy upper crust ad executives at the Tribune tower.
Strong merchandising? There’s a reason I never see Sox stuff in the stores, and it’s not because of heavy sales.>>>
In the late 80s and early 90s, when the Sox unveiled the current uniform, they outsold every baseball team in merchandizing except for the Yankees. And when the Sox begin winning again, you will see the sales pick up again. Cub merchandizing, however, outside of Sammy Sosa jersies, has as much to do with TV programming as baseball loyalty, as discussed above.
The Cubs may have lengthy spells of ineptitude, but there is always a reason to care and to watch.>>>>
Just like there’s a reason to care and watch “As the World Turns.” Its not baseball, its pre-packaged media hype. Cub fans pack Wrigley Field because “they care?” Care about what? A cast of characters that hasn’t remained constant except in its inability to win? No, the vast majority of Cubs fans care only to experience what they see on T.V. Its the “Universal Studios Tour” of major league baseball. On any given Saturday during the baseball season, you will find the Wrigley Field stands packed with business folk and busloads of tours of upscale wealthy folks from places like Keokuk. There there to see Wrigley, to watch Harry’s successor’s sing, to bask in the sun, drink too much, be seen with the “beautiful people,” to become a “hat shot” for Arne Harris on WGN T.V. But it has precious little to do with the day to day fortunes of the team, and any real interest, knowledge, or love of baseball.
There are Cub fans who are devoted to their team the way I am devoted to the White Sox. If you are one of them, I apologize. By and large, these Cub fans are not real excited about the way the Tribune and WGN run the team. My best friend in law school (a HUGE Cubs fan) still regularly attends the games, and mutters to himself “where the hell were these people in 1975?” It has been my experience as a basball fan in Chicago that the vast majority of Cubs fans know little about baseball, and only care about the hype. By and large, Sox fans tend to be more “baseball” oriented. There are far fewer of us, this is true. But we’re realistic.
And by the way, I meant the comment about the Cubs “sucking” to fit into the general tongue in cheek and self deprecating air you created in this thread. And as I have said many times before, the White Sox certainly have “sucked” in recent years. My amazement centers on Cubs fans who somehow think they are in Nirvana because they are Cubs fans, when the “Nirvana” they revel in has so little to do with the on-field product.
SoxFan59
“Its fiction, but all the facts are true!”
Dammit, Sox, don’t hold back! Let it out! Tell us how you really feel! 
OK, if there’s ever a Chicago SDMB gathering I HAVE to sit next to SoxFan. It’s not even that I agree or disagree, I just figure the conversation won’t drag.
Val? Ask him his opinions on Ageism.
Tomndebb: Why?
SoxFan59
“Its fiction, but all the facts are true!”
Soxfan
I ama tried and true Cubs fan and I think it is pretty safe to say the same about you and the Sox. I got the tongue in cheek aspect of your original post, and wanted to return the same. Always fun to debate opposing teams, so thanks for that. Granted, I take issue with some of your statements in reply to my post, but I can respect true fandom. And, I can admit that there is an air of suckiness around the Cubs that will probably hang until they are owned by someone (anyone) else.
Thanks, Mul (can I call you Mul?). I do tend to get passionately angry about the Cubs/Sox rivalry. I think it all comes from coming of age as a baseball fan in Chicago in the late 60s and early 70s, when the Cubs were competetive and the darlings of the media and the Sox were coming out of an era of near greatness (but for those damn, soon to be world champions again Yankees) and were then in the habit of losing 100 games a year. I got the butt end of many of those playground arguments. And I grew up on the south side, too! Talk about your loyalty. There were very few kids at Greenwood Elementary School who admitted to being Sox fans in the fall of 1969. Some say I was scarred for life. Then again, being a White Sox fan scars you generally. Being a Sox fan is just like being a Cubs fan, except we exist in reality. We know we aren’t going to win. Cubs fans seem to be blissfully ignorant of it all.
SoxFan59
“Its fiction, but all the facts are true!”
There is something to be said for blissful ignorance. It leaves you kind of tingly all over. One thing about Cubs and Sox, both teams were stupid enough to put Jaime Navarro on the payroll. They both got some splaining to do for that roster move.
I don’t know how they do it, but somehow it always comes back to sport!
Or socks.
In this case, both. Very clever!
“Well, roll me in eggs and flour and bake me for forty minutes!”