Just a tidbit - I heard the quarantine for Mr. Duncan’s girlfriend and family expires at midnight tonight. Despite living in very close proximity to a definitely sick Mr. Duncan, and without hazmat gear or training, none of them seem to have caught the disease.
Gee, I guess it’s not quite as super-contagious as some people seem to think.
Which is not to say we should be careless, but honestly, this isn’t super-contagious-sudden-death-to-be-within-10-miles.
Rand Paul says Ebola can travel three feet!
That’s DOCTOR Rand Paul.
Better yet can use the President’s secret service.
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Paul has made similar comments in the wake of three Ebola diagnoses within the United States, suggesting the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention makes the transmission of Ebola sound similar to that of AIDS.
Ebola, he says, is easier to contract.
“You’re not going to get AIDS at a cocktail party. No one’s going to cough on you and you’re going to get AIDS. Everybody knows that. That’s what they make it sound exactly like,” Paul, a doctor and potential presidential contender, said Thursday at Plymouth State University in New Hampshire. “But then you listen to them closely, they say you have to have direct contact. But you know how they define direct contact? Being within three feet of someone.”
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His point is, then, is that Ebola is at least somewhat transmissible by things like coughs and sneezes.
Your point was what, exactly?
Someone owes an apology to Rand.
Gee I guess the 4000 people who died from it should have contacted you first and save themselves a lot of grief.
Aids is a difficult disease to contract yet 1.7 million people died from it. Very few family members or friends got the disease. The disease spread because nothing was done about it.
As it stands now the only defense against it moving into the United States is a questionnaire and a thermometer.
What we really need are some special ops guys parachuting in on their super motorbikes from AC-17 troop transport gunships.
Most of those 4,000 were the direct caregivers of other Ebola patients, or were involved in disposing of the dead bodies which are known to remain infectious. This is also why so many children are being orphaned by it - the children are not the ones directly caring for the ill, or are sent away by their parents, who then catch it (because they’re caring for a sick spouse) and then succumb.
Duncan’s fiancee and her family were NOT caring for him during his sickest and most infectious period of illness. They also followed instructions on bagging items that might have been contaminated and did their best to sanitize the home, and those actions also reduced their risk. They did not become ill. Two of the nurses caring for him during that most infectious period did become ill, which is consistent with direct caregivers being at highest risk.
HIV is difficult to catch unless you’re having sex with someone infected, sharing needles with them, or receiving a blood transfusion from such a person in which case it’s not that difficult to catch. So you saw transmission between spouses but since people usually don’t screw their other relatives no, those other relatives didn’t catch it.
Unless you’re getting bodily fluids smeared on you it turns out Ebola isn’t that easy to catch, but if you do get blood/bodily waste on you from such a patient yeah, you certainly are at significant risk. Since it’s easy to get that on you while caring for a dying Ebola patient, and because in the affected area of Africa washing of the deceased prior to burial is traditional and usually done by family yeah, you get family getting sick and dying.
Largely because it involved S-E-X and D-R-U-G-S and people didn’t want to say the word “condom” in public.
What would you suggest instead?
The fever is usually the first major symptom and shows up before all the rest of the vomiting, diarrhea, and bleeding. Seems a reasonable screening tool to me.
Another major difference between AIDS and Ebola is that the period of time you are infectious before it’s obvious you have the disease is measured in years for AIDS, and hours or (at most) a handful of days for Ebola.
Actually, having sick people being taken care of in modern-ish hospitals rather than by untrained family members in homes that often lack basic services is what would have saved the grief. A public health system able to enforce safe burials would help as well.
The best (and really only) defense is a full-force push to stop it at the source. That is how we keep it out of the US.
Actually You’d think now would be the best time for Obama to submit a candidate for Surgeon General. If they get it, it can only help people. If they don’t, he scores some political points.
He’d first have to withdraw the nomination of Dr. Vivek Murthy, pending for almost a year but blocked by the Republicans because he annoyed the NRA by referring to guns as a health hazard.
A tidbit from my Facebook feed: More Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola.
So, when is Obama gonna get off his lazy ass and appoint a Kardashian Czar?
(Or should that be Kardashian Kzar?)
I don’t know where you get this idea that children aren’t being infected by this. UNICEF reports children account for 22 percent of Ebola cases, men 25 percent, and women more than 50 percent.
That’s correct but there is no standard progression of the disease. It affects different people differently. By the time it manifests itself fully the infected person can spread it. That’s the whole problem in one sentence. Duncan entered the hospital in an infectious state. It didn’t suddenly occur as he walked through the door.
Yes, aids is difficult to catch yet it killed 1.7 million people.
you left out sexually transmitted. If an infected male survives the disease it’s still active in his semen 7 weeks later.
restrict entry from countries that are in an epidemic state. Hire someone who knows what they’re doing.
“usually” isn’t “always” and that’s the problem with any epidemic. It’s not what you do after it’s started, it’s what you did to prevent it from starting. Nigeria isolated those infected and then banned people from countries who still have an infected populace until it’s under control.
I’ll say it again because it doesn’t seem to be sinking in. We are exponentially more mobile than those countries. The United States has twice the passenger miles flown as China which has three times the passenger miles flown as the UK. It’s not a domino effect, it’s a series of domino effects.
Whaddya ya mean that Obama isn’t taking Ebola seriously? Just last Friday I heard on the news that he had CANCELLED two fundraisers so that he could meet with his Cabinet!!
Canceling a politicians fundraiser! The last time I heard of that happening was when Pearl Harbor was bombed.
And the annual passenger miles flown of Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone is?
CMC fnord!
51.4% of Liberians are under 18. Children do get it, but less often than adults. And given children’s habit of getting their hands into everything, this is a pretty good indication that Ebola is being spread the same ways it’s been spread for the past 38 years.
Please point to where I said that children aren’t getting Ebola. You can’t, because that’s NOT what I said. Reading comprehension FTW, seriously, Magiver, you’re usually better at reading than this.
I said that a lot of children were being orphaned, not that they were immune, and that it’s because 1) children are not the usual caregivers of the dying in this case and 2) parents will send their kids away if they can. Your own stats bear this out - children are only 22% of Ebola cases, but in the affected parts of Africa they’re more than 22% of the population. If Ebola spread like the common cold or the flu the infection patterns would be different.
In other words, your stats support my statements.
The CDC and WHO, which are normally considered reputable agencies, have stated that a person is most infectious at the point of death or just afterward. A person is not equally infectious at all times they are sick. What is this “manifest fully” stage? Is it the initial fever? Or is it when a person is bleeding out through needle punctures?
When Duncan initially showed up with a high fever he most likely had less of a viral load than when he died. He also wasn’t throwing up, shitting, or bleeding during his initial visit (or so I assume from a lack of such details in news reports). He just wasn’t spreading a lot of virus. The second time he came in he probably had more virus, but even then he didn’t seem to be spewing body fluids around the landscape. The only people who got sick were those dealing with him at the end stages when he was most infectious, doing things like intubating him or hooking up a dialysis machine. Even then, only two of the people doing such work were infected
Obviously, it’s not good anyone got sick but this isn’t some SuperPlague. It’s a nasty, horrible, disease but it clearly is containable. The vast majority of people the US and Europe are putting into quarantine are healthy and uninfected. That doesn’t mean I’m opposed to quarantine - quite the contrary, I think it’s one of our most effective tools, but when you look at stats like, of the 48 healthcare workers who treated Duncan at, yes, when he “fully manifested” the infection only two got sick this doesn’t look at all like an out of control situation.
Someone infectious with Ebola is typically only able to spread it for a week or two, at most two months for male survivors. Someone with HIV can spread it for years. Someone with Ebola is pretty obviously ill, which leads to some limitation of contacts. Someone with HIV can look and feel fine and spread it through many contacts. This results in different total numbers of people catching the infections even though neither disease is anywhere near as contagious as, say, cold virus.
True. However, that is not the main method of transmission. Most people are getting sick from bodily fluids, not sex.
Already done. Even better, those countries are screening people who leave so actually there are two nets trying to catch sick people.
However, folks are just going to have to deal with the reality that NO screening procedure, border lockdown, or quarantine is ever going to be perfect. You need a plan for whatever slips through either by accident or intent.
Present evidence that the people Obama has designated to handle this don’t know what they’re doing.
And… what do you think we’re doing? The first two people brought to the US with Ebola for treatment were brought in with containment pods. Yes, there WAS a lapse with Mr. Duncan but on round two he was put in an isolation ward and several dozen people were put in quarantine. The two nurses that got ill here were, again, put into isolation and then subsequently transferred, again in those high-tech pods, to facilities with better than typical expertise in infectious diseases. Their close contacts are, again, in quarantine.
How is this not isolating victims?
There is the issue that we have experts from the US who want to go to the affected areas and use their skills to help… do we ban them from coming back? Harvard University announced a policy that any of their people who go over there have to agree to a 21 day quarantine on their return even if they show no signs of illness. Is that reasonable or not?
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I’ll say it again because it doesn’t seem to be sinking in. We are exponentially more mobile than those countries[./QUOTE]
And yet we also seem to have fewer secondary infections (two, from three Ebola patients as opposed to Liberia where typically three victims would generate six new infections).
The circumstances in the US or Europe are VERY different than what they are in Liberia. This is a huge factor you seem determined to overlook.
I tend to lean right politically, but damn, no matter what Obama does or doesn’t do, he gets raked over the coals for it.
I get that this is the media story of the moment right now, but what is Obama supposed to do? Does anyone really think we close our borders? Ebola is a massively overwrought ‘problem’ here in the US. Three people? I have much more pressing matters to spend my worry budget on right now.
I heard on the radio recently that Obama was criticised by Republicans for choosing someone who is ‘just an organiser’ to head the CDC (or to be ‘Ebola Czar’, or something), claiming that a doctor is needed in that position; and also criticised the President for considering someone else because that person was ‘just a doctor’, claiming the position must be filled by an organiser.