No, but they sure are the world experts in supplying and deploying polonium for assassination. You’d want to buy your stuff from them if you couldn’t get it from Oak Ridge or wherever.
Sadly untrue. Here’s a gruesome story from Brazil.
From the article: “On September 13, 1987, the guard in charge of daytime security, Voudireinão da Silva, did not show up to work, using a sick day to attend a cinema screening of Herbie Goes Bananas with his family.”
Am I the only one who finds this story extremely suspicious??!?
Jack, let me stop you right there. Acute radiation syndrome involves vomiting, diarrhea, nausea, fatigue, and hair loss. If you’d like, I can point to the Wikipedia page or the EPA’s website. Your choice, though I’m certain you’ll remain unconvinced regardless.
As for Israel, I’ve been extraordinarily careful in not put any blame on Israel or any other country. In fact, my whole purpose has been to figure out what country could have done it. From what I can gather, the only way to get polonium is to get it from a country that can highly enrich uranium. I doubt there’s a atomic centrifuge sitting in the middle of the Gaza Strip, but who knows, maybe the Palestinian leadership (Hamas?!) made it themselves using concrete and steel* after watching an episode of Breaking Bad. If you can’t see the link between Mr. Arafat and Mr. Litvinenko, then, well, let’s just say I’m not going to spell it out for you. All that I can suggest is that you draw upon the powers of insight and intuition - those disparate pieces of neural software that’s presumably loaded into every human’s right hemisphere.
./start
- Honesty
:smack:
Finally, we have a thinker.
- Honesty
And apparently Arafat’s illness involved no hair loss.
And no leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, bloody stools or other known complications of serious radiation exposure. In addition, his known disorders (i.e. hepatic cirrhosis, cardiovascular disease) are not tied to radiation syndrome.
Has anyone verified whether or not Arafat had a headache or fever in the days leading up to his death? These are other nonspecific symptoms apart from nausea, vomiting etc. which can be seen in acute radiation exposure. Given the number of people in this country currently experiencing headache and fever, it’s only logical to assume they don’t have the flu or other common disorder - there’s a wave of mysterious polonium poisoning going on. :eek:
Some other folks who are not leaping straight into the conspiracy vat:
*"An official press release from the Institut de radiophysique, where those (Arafat belongings) were analyzed, stated that:
"an unexplained quantity of Polonium-210 has been detected on the personal effects of Mr. Arafat. However, this is not sufficient to determine the causes of death. In particular, it will be recalled that, contrary to what happened in the case of the former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, Mr. Arafat did not lose his hair, and some of the findings in the forensic report are inconsistent with an acute radiation syndrome."
A spokesman for the Institut de Radiophysique stressed that the “clinical symptoms described in Arafat’s medical reports were not consistent with polonium-210 and that conclusions could not be drawn as to whether the Palestinian leader was poisoned or not”, and that “the only way to confirm the findings would be to exhume Arafat’s body to test it for polonium-210.” (negative results subsequently reported). François Bochud, who heads the Institute of Radiation Physics in Lausanne, Switzerland, stated that “our results are clearly not a proof of any poisoning” Alastair Hay, professor of environmental toxicology at the University of Leeds in England, stated that “You don’t know much about the provenance of the clothing and whether it had been tampered with later on. You’d want to test the body.”
In response to Al Jazeera’s report, Dr. Ely Karmon, at Herzliya’s Institute for Counterterrorism, a specialist in chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear terrorism, said that “the half-life of the substance would make it impossible for polonium to have been discovered at such high levels if it had been used to kill Arafat eight years ago. If it had been used for poisoning, minimal levels should be seen now. Yet much higher levels were found. Someone planted the polonium much later.” He went on to question why Arafat’s widow, Suha Arafat, who provided the researchers with Arafat’s belongings was not also poisoned while she was by his side at the hospital touching him and his clothing.”*
Since you’re one of the Dope’s most prolific and vituperative anti-Israel posters, I am not overly impressed by this disclaimer or the zeal with which you’ve accepted inconclusive data and now want us to speculate on the perpetrator to a highly dubious murder.
There’s no polite way I can respond to this, so I’m going to leave it alone.
[QUOTE=Terr]
And apparently Arafat’s illness involved no hair loss.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
And no leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, bloody stools or other known complications of serious radiation exposure. In addition, his known disorders (i.e. hepatic cirrhosis, cardiovascular disease) are not tied to radiation syndrome.
[/QUOTE]
The symptoms of acute radiation syndrome are, in part, similar to anassortment of diseases/disorders like flu, mono, food poisoning, motion sickness, malaria, HIV, and even gastroenteritis. Tthose who may be confused, please take a look at the Center for Disease Control’s website on acute radiation syndrome.
[QUOTE=The Center for Disease Control]
Symptoms of ARS may include nausea, vomiting, headache, and diarrhea.
These symptoms start within minutes to days after the exposure, can last for minutes up to several days, and may come and go.If you have these symptoms after a radiation emergency, seek medical attention as soon as emergency officials determine it is safe to do so.
After the initial symptoms, a person usually looks and feels healthy for a period of time, after which he or she will become sick again with variable symptoms and severity that vary depending on the radiation dose that he or she received.These symptoms include loss of appetite, fatigue, fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and possibly even seizures and coma. This seriously ill stage may last from a few hours up to several months.
[/QUOTE]
The lack of hair loss doesn’t surprise me at all. It suggests that Mr. Arafat was given a low dose of radiation (0.5 - 1.5 Gy) while Mr. Litvinenko was given a much higher dose (2 - 3 Gy). My reasoning is that Mr. Arafat was in his mid-seventies with underlying health issues compared to Mr. Litvinenko who was in his early forties (presumably with little-or-none health problems). This differential in dose is precisely (IMHO) why Mr. Litvinenko experienced hair loss and Mr. Arafat did not. I also assume that whomever poisoned Mr. Arafat factored in his preexisting health problems and his age when measuring out the (much smaller) dose.
- Honesty
I’m assuming that whoever poisoned Arafat wanted it to look like a natural death, whereas the Russian secret service either didn’t care how Litvinenko’s death looked, or else deliberately wanted everyone to know he’d been assassinated (to send a message of, “See what we can do to you if you squeal.”)
As has been eloquently noted in other contexts, when all you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
There’s also a saying about about happens when you assume, but I’ll let you discover that one for yourself.
And yet, to the experts who examined the data and know what radiation poisoning, it suggests no such thing. They concluded that he didn’t die of radiation poisoning at all. I guess we’re at an impasse.
I have gastrointestinal distress and a headache. It can’t possibly due to last night’s extra spicy curry and two bottles of wine. I think some passing Russian must have slipped me a Polonium Finn. That’s the only possible explanation.
Could it be that you and Arafat were both surreptitiously dosed with luminous poison??!?
I’m not an expert on radiation poisoning, but it seems likely that a lethal dose of radiation would always be more than the dose required to cause damage to the most rapidly dividing cells like hair, gastric mucosa, leukocytes etc, since those would be the first affected by radiation.
Update: the free, 108 page report is here.
- Honesty
I’m just curious, where are the apologies for nuking and mocking Honesty since it would seem now that consensus is that he WASpoisoned?
And good on ya Honesty for being big enough not to gloat.
Well, let’s see.
We have one set of forensic examiners that found no evidence of polonium in Arafat’s remains. We have another set that announce that they did.
The new report does not speculate on a cause of death.
Arafat’s medical course did not fit his having been given a lethal dose of polonium for reasons already explained.
Questions remain about chain of custody after so many years.
Conspiracy theorists can “gloat” all they please, but their conclusions remain extremely shaky.
Not a conspiracy theorist, but when the investigators say they are 83% sure he died of Polonium poisoning I’m willing to go with that. Note that the Swedes did not say he was POISONNED (as in a malicious act by an outside agency) but that polonium poisoning would seem to be the cause of death.
Do I trust the Russians to be completely open, nope. Not because I have anything against Russians, just their track record on openness. As soon as they provide their research and a statement that they are 83% sure polonium wasn’t involved I’ll be happy to recant.
Til then I maintain that Honesty was unfairly castigated and ridiculed.
So the ball is in the court of the mockers, refute.