It's official: Yasser Arafat's belongings were contaminated with polonium

[Shodan]

@DSeid

The stuff decays pretty quickly, 138 days. Finding anything significant above baseline this many years later is … interesting.

I’m no Sherlock Holmes (nor Madame Curie) but that struck me as well. If there is that much left after ten years, if Arafat really died of polonium he must have been glowing in the dark. And I would expect him to have presented with some obvious signs of radiation poisoning, as mentioned above.

Cripes, at those levels his doctors would have died just from examining him.

Regards,
Shodan

[BrainGlutton]

@Alessan

Hitler? No. But people here have a hard time respecting people like Margaret Thatcher or George W. Bush, and they’re not Hitler, either. Obviously, my own opinion of him is probably lower than the most, here, but I’d say the majority of posters think of him as not all that much more than just another dead terrorist.

And not even as funny as Achmed.

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

@Shodan

I’m no Sherlock Holmes (nor Madame Curie) but that struck me as well. If there is that much left after ten years, if Arafat really died of polonium he must have been glowing in the dark. And I would expect him to have presented with some obvious signs of radiation poisoning, as mentioned above.

Cripes, at those levels his doctors would have died just from examining him.

Regards,
Shodan

Really? Can you provide the calculations and likely sequence of events that would support your assertion? They’re alpha particles. Provided nobody drank his blood or urine or ate his organs, feces or underwear, why would anyone be harmed by the polonium on his person?

The people treating him weren’t walking into his hospital room with open wounds, they were probably wearing fairly typical medical gear that is mostly disposed of at the end of the day. They’re skin was intact and they probably were not rubbing up against his dirty drawers. That is pretty much all you need to protect yourself from polonium.

[carnivorousplant]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

That is pretty much all you need to protect yourself from polonium.

I am relieved. One must only watch out for umbrella wielding strangers on the street.

[Jackmannii]

One facet of this brouhaha that’s been underreported: the realization that if Arafat was poisoned, it implicates one or more of the people closest to him. After all, it’s hardly believable that Israel parachuted a bottle of polonium-laced Snapple into Arafat’s closely guarded compound, with a label attached reading “Drink Me”.

Arafat’s widow has made this connection:

"She told Reuters the polonium must have been administered by someone “in his close circle” because experts had told her the poison would have been put in his coffee, tea or water.

So, while some Palestinian sources are pointing at Israel, other Palestinians have to be wondering which of their leaders are implicated. The law of unintended conspiracy-consequences seems to be taking effect.

[clairobscur]

@DSeid

Anyone with any understanding of why his medical files have not been released by the French in the context of this investigation.

Medical secret, presumably. That’s why they weren’t released originally, at least.

[clairobscur]

@Jackmannii

A more likely explanation is that there was perception at the time of an unambiguous and non-controversial cause of death, and no reason to have an autopsy done

The way I remember it, there were suspicions as soon as he died. I would even say before he was dead.

It seems to me that his widow didn’t want an autopsy ( and even that was controversial, IIRC).

[dropzone]

@DSeid

You might want to read some of the many articles about this. No it does not. It leaves a very faint trail which is not very clear at all.

My sources said otherwise, but I closed those windows and don’t think it’s worth going to the trouble of looking them up again because we agree otherwise. And I might’ve misread it.

[Malthus]

@Jackmannii

One facet of this brouhaha that’s been underreported: the realization that if Arafat was poisoned, it implicates one or more of the people closest to him. After all, it’s hardly believable that Israel parachuted a bottle of polonium-laced Snapple into Arafat’s closely guarded compound, with a label attached reading “Drink Me”.

Arafat’s widow has made this connection:

"She told Reuters the polonium must have been administered by someone “in his close circle” because experts had told her the poison would have been put in his coffee, tea or water.

So, while some Palestinian sources are pointing at Israel, other Palestinians have to be wondering which of their leaders are implicated. The law of unintended conspiracy-consequences seems to be taking effect.

This points to a possible Syrian connection.

When Syria split with Arafat and declared him “persona non grata” in the 80s, they backed anti-Arafat factions within Fatah - and also, allegedly, backed some assasinations of pro-Arafat Fatah members.

It is possible that the poisioning of Arafat (if he died by posion) was a fallout from that conflict; a member of Arafat’s circle could be backing the anti-Arafat faction.

This isn’t exactly anything new for Syrian-Palestinian relations: just last year, Fatah was accusing Syria of plotting to assassinate current Palestinian leader Abbas, using as its front the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

http://www.worldtribune.com/2012/04/03/fatah-syria-plotting-to-assassinate-palestinian-leader-abbas/

[Inbred_Mm_domesticus]

Sharon’s discussion of his many assassination attempts on Arafat. Arafat estimated 13 attempts.

Sharon was blunt on the subject of Arafat. “He’s a murderer and a liar,” he said. “He’s an enemy. He’s a bitter enemy.” Sharon has devoted a great deal of time and energy to Arafat. By Arafat’s own count, Sharon has tried to have him killed thirteen times. Sharon wouldn’t fix on a number, but he said the opportunity had arisen repeatedly. “All the governments of Israel for many years, Labor, Likud, all of them, made an effort — and I want to use a subtle word for the American reader — to remove him from our society. We never succeeded.”

Israel controlled the area surrounding Arafat’s home.Israel has demonstrated their capability of producing polonium-210.

According to the book The Bomb in the Basement, several deaths in Israel during 1957–1969 were caused by 210Po.[86] A leak was discovered at a Weizmann Institute laboratory in 1957. Traces of 210Po were found on the hands of professor Dror Sadeh, a physicist who researched radioactive materials. Medical tests indicated no harm, but the tests did not include bone marrow. Sadeh died from cancer. One of his students died of leukemia, and two colleagues died after a few years, both from cancer. The issue was investigated secretly, and there was never any formal admission that a connection between the leak and the deaths had existed.[87]

These people did not have their hair falling out or other overt signs of radioactive poisoning either. I wonder what Israel learned about poisoning their enemies with polonium-210 from their investigation. It probably just comes down to the Russian assassination of that spy was one big dose while Arafat was dosed over a long period of time by Israel and some Palestinian traitor.

[Malthus]

@Inbred_Mm_domesticus

Sharon’s discussion of his many assassination attempts on Arafat. Arafat estimated 13 attempts.
Israel controlled the area surrounding Arafat’s home.Israel has demonstrated their capability of producing polonium-210.

These people did not have their hair falling out or other overt signs of radioactive poisoning either. I wonder what Israel learned about poisoning their enemies with polonium-210 from their investigation. It probably just comes down to the Russian assassination of that spy was one big dose while Arafat was dosed over a long period of time by Israel and some Palestinian traitor.

There is no doubt that Israel had in the past wanted him dead - though of course they were not unique in that: many middle eastern players wanted Arafat dead. What is missing is any really compelling reason for Israel to kill him in 2004, when they had him more or less sick, helpless, and under their thumb in his compound.

Plus, more as a matter of aesthetics than anything else, why poision? Israel usually assassinates by bombs or bullets. Not to say they could not have poisioned him if they wanted to, they had the means, but given the history of animosity, you’d have thought they would have blown him up if they wanted him dead - that being more spectacular and fitting (plus being what they usually do when assassinating those they classify as terrorists).

As you note, Israel hardly made a secret of their desire to kill him at one time, and Sharon strikes me as the kind of guy who’d rather do the deed and boast of it, than do it secretly and deny. Again, this is in the realm of speculation, but it simply strikes me as not their style.

Those Israeli guys who allegedly died of polonium did so from cancer, which is somewhat different from dying of acute posioning, as is alleged here.

[Honesty]

@Malthus

Plus, more as a matter of aesthetics than anything else, why poision? Israel usually assassinates by bombs or bullets. Not to say they could not have poisioned him if they wanted to, they had the means, but given the history of animosity, you’d have thought they would have blown him up if they wanted him dead - that being more spectacular and fitting (plus being what they usually do when assassinating those they classify as terrorists).

Malthus, this is the time where you have to slide from your left hemisphere to your right hemisphere. Let me give you a moment to do the transition. Ok. Ready? Good. If you want to kill a >70 year old man with a host of underlying health issues and not get caught. Do you:

A. Shoot him dead
B. Weaken him physiologically so that his death will look like natural causes
C. Kill off his family members so that he’ll die of grief
D. Imprison/Detain him in some kind of compound/jail/house.
E. Provide substandard health care when he becomes fatally ill
F. This is a trick question: two or more of the answers are correct!
I was going to provide a spoiler box for the answer(s) but I’m genuinely interested to see how the naysayers will answer. I suspect you’ll put something like “G. He died of cigarette smoke!!111onone” or “H. He died of AIDS/HIV!!harhar!” but none of these make sense. I know they don’t, you know they don’t, and everyone else here knows they don’t many sense.

To determine the culprit, the first question of any human being with both sides of their brain functioning should be: *What country has the capability to make or produce polonium-210? * This question has continued to be lost on the peanut gallery and has, instead, morphed into a slapstick sideshow over the death of another human being. It reminds me of the thread about Trayvon Martin where the clowns went on and on about how funny it is that he died. It’s the behavior of monsters, sociopaths, and rabid animals. Most of the posters here couldn’t convince me they’re anything but an facsimile of a human being (unless,of course, the victim looks similar to them). It is ethnocentrism at its finest.

• Honesty

P.S. Because polonium-210 puts out alpha particles, doctors do need to anything but an intact epithelial barrier to deflect them away. In layman’s terms, dealing with Arafat’s belongings would not have endangered the people working with them unless they ingested them or rubbed them in an open wound. The** domesticus **guy grasps this, bless his heart, the rest of you, sadly, do not.

[Jackmannii]

@Honesty

I suspect you’ll put something like “G. He died of cigarette smoke!!111onone” or “H. He died of AIDS/HIV!!harhar!” but none of these make sense.

Creating and knocking down strawmen never does. I see you continue to avoid addressing the known circumstances of Arafat’s medical condition and final illness, and the fact that it was not consistent with deliberate polonium poisoning.

@Honesty

It’s the behavior of monsters, sociopaths, and rabid animals. Most of the posters here couldn’t convince me they’re anything but an facsimile of a human being (unless,of course, the victim looks similar to them).

Ethnocentrism at its finest.

Accusing opponents of being monsters and racists is a poor way of convincing them, or for that matter anyone else who values logic and critical thinking skills.

[Malthus]

@Honesty

Malthus, this is the time where you have to slide from your left hemisphere to your right hemisphere. Let me give you a moment to do the transition. Ok. Ready? Good. If you want to kill a >70 year old man with a host of underlying health issues and not get caught. Do you:

A. Shoot him dead
B. Weaken him physiologically so that his death will look like natural causes
C. Kill off his family members so that he’ll die of grief
D. Imprison/Detain him in some kind of compound/jail/house.
E. Provide substandard health care when he becomes fatally ill
F. This is a trick question: two or more of the answers are correct!
I was going to provide a spoiler box for the answer(s) but I’m genuinely interested to see how the naysayers will answer. . I suspect you’ll put something like “G. He died of cigarette smoke!!111onone” or “H. He died of AIDS/HIV!!harhar!” but none of these make sense. I know they don’t, you know they don’t, and everyone else here knows they don’t many sense.

To determine the culprit, the first question of any human being with both sides of their brain functioning should be: *What country has the capability to make or produce polonium-210? * This question has continued to be lost on the peanut gallery and has, instead, morphed into a slapstick sideshow over the death of another human being. It reminds me of the thread about Trayvon Martin where the clowns went on and on about how funny it is that he died. It’s the behavior of monsters, sociopaths, and rabid animals. Most of the posters here couldn’t convince me they’re anything but an facsimile of a human being (unless,of course, the victim looks similar to them).

Ethnocentrism at its finest.

• Honesty

P.S. Because polonium-210 puts out alpha particles, doctors do need to anything but an intact epithelial barrier to deflect them away. In layman’s terms, dealing with Arafat’s belongings would not have endangered the people working with them unless they ingested them or rubbed them in an open wound. The** domesticus **guy grasps this, bless his heart, the rest of you, sadly, do not.

My point in the quoted portion, which I guess you missed, is that if Israel - specifically, Sharon - wanted to assassinate Arafat, he was less likely to want to do it in a way that would avoid detection, given the fact that Sharon hardly made a secret of his desire to kill Arafat and Israel has a history of assasinating people in spectacular ways - particularly with explosives. I rate this as not being Sharon’s “style”, which was more to do what he thought and damn the consequernces.

Dunno what that has to do with “ethnocentrism”. Are you perhaps accusing me of being unfair to Israel? Or are you concerned with my negative assessment of Ariel Sharon? I would not have thought you that sensitive to his reputation, but it certainly speaks well of your impartiality that you are.

[Honesty]

@Jackmannii

Creating and knocking down strawmen never does. I see you continue to avoid addressing the known circumstances of Arafat’s medical condition and final illness, and the fact that it was not consistent with deliberate polonium poisoning.Accusing opponents of being monsters and racists is a poor way of convincing them, or for that matter anyone else who values logic and critical thinking skills.

Jackmannii, there is no convincing in this thread. This is the only thread, in recent memory, that the provided peer-reviewed papers are not good enough neither are reports from independent scientist. Frustratingly, newspaper reports are equally useless, too. There is nothing, nothing, nothing I can say, do, or provide that can convince Arafat was exposed to polonium 210. You’ve (and others) made this excruciatingly clear. It reminds me of that slogan in that book 1984 that goes something like “WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH”. You (and others) have the last bit down pat.

• Honesty

[Honesty]

@Malthus

Dunno what that has to do with “ethnocentrism”. Are you perhaps accusing me of being unfair to Israel? Or are you concerned with my negative assessment of Ariel Sharon? I would not have thought you that sensitive to his reputation, but it certainly speaks well of your impartiality that you are.

(bolding mine)

Malthus, I’m going to let you figure it out.

• Honesty

[XT]

[QUOTE=Honesty]
A. Shoot him dead
B. Weaken him physiologically so that his death will look like natural causes
C. Kill off his family members so that he’ll die of grief
D. Imprison/Detain him in some kind of compound/jail/house.
E. Provide substandard health care when he becomes fatally ill
F. This is a trick question: two or more of the answers are correct!
[/QUOTE]

If you are Israel? I’d go with A…you shoot him dead. You know, pretty much like they have done in the past with folks they thought of as terrorists and decided to go after. Turning this around, why do YOU think Israel would go through all of these antics in order to kill a sickly old man? What’s it benefit them to kill him without supposed detection?

I was going to provide a spoiler box for the answer(s) but I’m genuinely interested to see how the naysayers will answer. I suspect you’ll put something like “G. He died of cigarette smoke!!111onone” or “H. He died of AIDS/HIV!!harhar!” but none of these make sense. I know they don’t, you know they don’t, and everyone else here knows they don’t many sense.

Maybe someone tried to kill him with straw? It seems on sale this week, so maybe it was on sale at the time of his death as well. Have you looked into that?

To determine the culprit, the first question of any human being with both sides of their brain functioning should be: What country has the capability to make or produce polonium-210? This question has continued to be lost on the peanut gallery and has, instead, morphed into a slapstick sideshow over the death of another human being

Ok…the answer is anyone with a nuclear reactor. So, it would be ‘What countries’ have the capacity to make or produce the stuff. Oh, and then you need to broaden that as well to ‘what countries could obtain polonium-210?’. Then you’d need to actually determine that, in fact, that’s what killed him, which still seems to be in question to most in this thread, let alone in the wider world outside of this message board.

You seem to be a bit miffed that folks aren’t jumping to the same conclusions that you are here, i.e. that it was obviously Israel that did it, that they were evil for doing it and that there really is no question that it was done. But you’ve failed to make an air tight case even that it was done, let alone who did it. Not going to quote from it (hell, it might have been linked too already) but here is an article on the list of possible suspects that might have done such a think, assuming he was poisoned at all.

It reminds me of the thread about Trayvon Martin where the clowns went on and on about how funny it is that he died. It’s the behavior of monsters, sociopaths, and rabid animals. Most of the posters here couldn’t convince me they’re anything but an facsimile of a human being (unless,of course, the victim looks similar to them). It is ethnocentrism at its finest.

That thing you jumped over wasn’t a conclusion, it was a shark.

[Honesty]

@Jackmannii

Creating and knocking down strawmen never does.

Strawman, eh? So,uh, you’re saying someone on this thread did not mention the HIV or the cigarette theory? Yeah, OK, good luck with that.

• Honesty

[Honesty]

@XT

that it was obviously Israel that did it, that they were evil for doing it and that there really is no question that it was done. B

BULLSHIT. I have never said Israel did anything to Arafat. BULLSHIT. I hate to pull a brazil84, but damnit, show me the post # where I said Israel killed Arafat or even suggested that they did? C’mon guys. It’s me vs all of you. No need to make up stuff. My position was that he was poisoned due to scientists finding traces of polonium on his belongings; by the way, this position was then later CONFIRMED by analysis of the gravesite as well as samples taken from his corpse. Please reread the OP and the first two pages of the thread. Thank you.

• Honesty

[XT]

@Honesty

BULLSHIT. I have never said Israel did anything to Arafat. BULLSHIT. I hate to pull a brazil84, but damnit, show me the post # where I said Israel killed Arafat or even suggested that they did? C’mon guys. It’s me vs all of you. No need to make up stuff.

Well, I’ve looked back over your posts and I guess you haven’t mentioned Israel as a possible suspect. I’m not sure if I was thinking of other posters or other threads you’ve been in (or another poster in another thread I thought was you), but regardless it’s clear I was wrong there, so my apologies.

My position was that he was poisoned due to scientists finding traces of polonium on his belongings; by the way, this position was then later CONFIRMED by analysis of the gravesite as well as samples taken from his corpse. Please reread the OP and the first two pages of the thread. Thank you.

• Honesty

I did read the first two pages, even though I didn’t start out in the thread since it was moved to GD. The assertion is that the polonium traces found on his clothes is what killed him. However, in those same 2 pages there were several valid counters to this, the most engaging to me being the chain of custody, as well as the failure of all of the people who tested the original samples to find the same results (though, as counter to that it’s possible they didn’t all test for the same things). So, thanks for the advice to re-read the OP and first two pages, but I don’t really need to. You might want to take your own advice and do the same, and this time with a more open mind and without the obvious fury you seem to have against anyone who has a difference of opinion on the subject. The evidence that he was poisoned, and poisoned with polonium is far from conclusive from my own reading of what’s been presented so far, and I have no dog in this fight, considering that I put Israel at the top of the list myself of suspects IF someone actually did it (though having read several of the posts in this thread as well as the article I linked too, I’m not so sure that’s the no brainer I thought it was before).