It's the Twenty Fucking First Century, So Why CAN'T We Cure the Common Cold?

[Waenara]

@ralph124c

I would get -10 very bad colds every winter-they would last 2 weeks from start to finish…

Methinks you’re misremembering. If you had a time machine and could go back and impartially observe, the number of colds and/or their severity would probably be less than you think.

10 colds x 2 weeks = 20 weeks

A year has 52 weeks.

I don’t see how you could have 20 weeks of cold in the winter, as 20 weeks would be almost half a year.

[Tuckerfan]

@Stranger On A Train

shakes head This is what happens with just a little bit of knowledge.

Trust me–“anyone who’s had 7th grade biology” doesn’t know jack shit about how viruses actually work; all they know is the Reader’s Digest Abridged Books version with simple language and four-color diagrams. How viruses work is a major, active field of study (virology) which receives heavy funding from both the government and private industry. Many viruses have had their genomes mapped out extensively (since viruses typically have noncomplex genomes in comparison to even the most primitive animal or plant, this is cheap, especially with modern process). However, mapping out a genome is only a very tiny step toward understanding how it functions (and more importantly with regard to viruses, how to make it stop functioning). And the range of virus species are enormous; it is essentially impossible at this point to make an accurate survey of the number of virus species extant; currently identified species number around 4000, but the true number is likely to be in the millions (depending now how you define speciation for a non-sexually-reproducing quasi-organism).

So, let me get this straight, we’ve mapped the genome of several different viruses, but that isn’t going to help us, since nobody knows how many different viruses there are. Wha? Why can’t you take, for example, the genome maps of say, one of the common cold viruses, the herpies virus, and the ebola virus, stick them side by side, look for the sequences they have in common and say, “Aha! That’s what makes these things viruses! Let’s start screwing up those areas!”? If they all have one (or more) things in common, going after those should yield a weapon against viruses in general.

Viruses are particularly tricky to target, because techincally speaking, they’re not alive. Lacking any indentifiable waste or respiration processes of their own, they’re the equivilent of a biological stealth cruise missile; you don’t see it until it’s already penetrated the defenses and is raining fire on the target. For the most part, it’s very, very difficult to distinguish a virus from a random, inert complex protein until it invades a cell and turns the organelles over to producing more viruses. Heck, most viruses (particularly ones that are well adapted) offer little or no symptoms, and some may even be beneficial in a symboitic fashion. Ebola and other hemorrhagic viruses, for instance, are actually poorly adapted, and their lethality on the host prevents wide reproduction. Viruses like HPV, SV-40, or the varicella-zoster virus are virtually universal in humans because of how generally benign they are to overall reproductive functioning.

Viruses are a helluvalot easier to figure out than prions, which appear to a protein where the folding has gone all funhouse mirror origami on you. Nor are viruses totally stealth, since the immune system can be trained to recognize the protein coat around the virus (which is how some vaccines work, IIRC).

Gene splicing (making glow-in-the-dark fish, or tomatos with high calcium levels) is tedious business, but not that technically complex; while I’m grossly oversimplying here, you basically identify a nucleotide sequence that appears to be associated with a particular gene expression and keep on splicing it into your target species until something takes, or you figure out that the interactions with other genes prevent correct expression. It’s hard, demanding work to be sure, but nothing on the order of difficulty of finding a mechanism to identify and inhibit a virus.

IIRC, at least some gene splicing involves using a virus to deliver the new genes. So it appears we’ve got part of the equation figured out.

Frankly, it’s probably a lot easier to modify the human genome and cellular mechanics to be resistant to the action of current viruses than it would be to try to root out and destroy the viruses themselves. Not that this is easy (or at this point, remotely plausible) but the elimination of viruses is vastly more difficult and complex than you understand it to be.

Stranger

Which reminds me, the government spent millions of dollars to breed mice with no immune system, so that they could transplant a human immune system into the mice, so that they could study HIV because mice don’t get AIDS. What I don’t understand is why they didn’t figure out why mice don’t get AIDS and then work to put that in humans. Growing fur and developing a cheese fixation is a small price to pay to not have to worry about AIDS, don’t you think?

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Tuckerfan

So, let me get this straight, we’ve mapped the genome of several different viruses, but that isn’t going to help us, since nobody knows how many different viruses there are. Wha? Why can’t you take, for example, the genome maps of say, one of the common cold viruses, the herpies virus, and the ebola virus, stick them side by side, look for the sequences they have in common and say, “Aha! That’s what makes these things viruses! Let’s start screwing up those areas!”? If they all have one (or more) things in common, going after those should yield a weapon against viruses in general.

No, you can’t do this. Rather than write a heavily cited eight page post on why this idea is fundamentally oversimplified, I’m just going to refer you to Human Virology. If you have any serious intention to understand how viruses function, what triggers an effective immune response, and why viruses are so hard to combat pharmaceutically, you’ll read (or at least skim) this book. If you just want to rant at the scientific and medical establishment for not suddenly pulling some magical cure out of their collective ass, I can’t really help you.

With regard to the health issues pertaining to the inhalation of alkaline, toxic aerosols, there’s a very simple way to alieviate the damage done to the respiratory system and reduce the incidence of chronic illness therefrom to almost negligable levels without cloning and surgically implanting any organs, and that is by abstaining from said activity.

Stranger

[Tuckerfan]

@Stranger On A Train

No, you can’t do this. Rather than write a heavily cited eight page post on why this idea is fundamentally oversimplified, I’m just going to refer you to Human Virology. If you have any serious intention to understand how viruses function, what triggers an effective immune response, and why viruses are so hard to combat pharmaceutically, you’ll read (or at least skim) this book. If you just want to rant at the scientific and medical establishment for not suddenly pulling some magical cure out of their collective ass, I can’t really help you.

Quitter!

With regard to the health issues pertaining to the inhalation of alkaline, toxic aerosols, there’s a very simple way to alieviate the damage done to the respiratory system and reduce the incidence of chronic illness therefrom to almost negligable levels without cloning and surgically implanting any organs, and that is by abstaining from said activity.

Stranger

Very funny, spoken by someone who obviously has no understanding of how difficult it is to quit butts. Not to mention that quitting doesn’t drop my risk of getting lung cancer, etc., down to the levels of someone who’s never smoked.

[Rysdad]

@Plynck

Now here, instead of bringing the Chinese into this, I would have instead made a reference to the Flemish.

golf clap

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Tuckerfan

Very funny, spoken by someone who obviously has no understanding of how difficult it is to quit butts. Not to mention that quitting doesn’t drop my risk of getting lung cancer, etc., down to the levels of someone who’s never smoked.

shrug There are workable pharmaceutical aids for the ceasation of smoking that are availble OTC or with a simple prescription that show dramatic efficacy, and they can significantly reduce the incidence or progression of chronic illness. Any technology regarding the cloning and replacement of major organs is speculative at best, and patently delusional (within the next 20-30 years) at worst. Relying on such methods to prevent or treat illnesses pertaining to smoking is blythe obliviousness.

Stranger

[Tuckerfan]

@Stranger On A Train

shrug There are workable pharmaceutical aids for the ceasation of smoking that are availble OTC or with a simple prescription that show dramatic efficacy, and they can significantly reduce the incidence or progression of chronic illness. Any technology regarding the cloning and replacement of major organs is speculative at best, and patently delusional (within the next 20-30 years) at worst. Relying on such methods to prevent or treat illnesses pertaining to smoking is blythe obliviousness.

Stranger

I’ve tried Wellbutrin and was phsycially unable to eat while taking it. If it was as easy as popping a pill, don’t you think that most people would do it?

[betenoir]

I could be wrong here but I believe cold symptoms are not so much an effect of the virus as the bodies reaction to having a virus. All that stuff coming out of you nose is the noble little white blood cells that died so you might live. Thank them before you throw that tissue in the wastebasket.

What I’m saying is it makes perfect sense that different viruses would produce the same symptoms. This is what are bodies do to combat the buggers.

[Tuckerfan]

@betenoir

I could be wrong here but I believe cold symptoms are not so much an effect of the virus as the bodies reaction to having a virus. All that stuff coming out of you nose is the noble little white blood cells that died so you might live. Thank them before you throw that tissue in the wastebasket.

What I’m saying is it makes perfect sense that different viruses would produce the same symptoms. This is what are bodies do to combat the buggers.

You’re partially correct in that the symptoms are a manifestation in many cases of the body’s reaction to fighting off the virus, but viruses also “target” certain parts of the body (in some cases). While some of the body’s reactions to ebola are going to be the same as a cold, a good many others are not. A trained medical professional can look at a patient and weed out a number of diseases based on the symptoms alone. Tests will further refine the diagnosis, and hopefully, point out a method of treatment.

[Aquila_Be]

My sympathies re your illness.

Strictly personal, but after I first moved from a country area to a city I found I developed eight to ten colds a year, some of them quite severe, and this lasted right through my twenties.

Now, I get maybe one barely noticeable cold every three or four years or so. I think I must be immune to all the serious cold viruses now so I never worry about them any more.

It’s one of the advantages of ageing, I suppose.

[PunditLisa]

Forget battling colds. Why don’t researchers focus on the important things and create a nail polish that doesn’t chip???

[Boyo_Jim]

It’s the 21st century! I should be snorting vitamin-enriched cocaine off the tits of my sex robot – what went wrong?
– Greg Giraldo

[Guinastasia]

@PunditLisa

Forget battling colds. Why don’t researchers focus on the important things and create a nail polish that doesn’t chip???

NOW you’re talkin’ progress!!!

[ralph124c]

My late grandfather (paased away at 84) was a heavy smoker. He smoked a pipe constantly-he favored very strong cavendish tobacco, and whn the pipe wasn’t lit, he smoked cigars-the man was a walking chimney! I NEVER once remeber him having a cold-perhaps the nicotine kept the virus at bay?

[chowder]

Just bragging here.
I have * never* had a cold…never*.

Years ago my doctor asked if I’d attend the cold research centre which at the time was in Leicester (I think)

I asked if there was any payment, he said no and so did I

[Chefguy]

@Chefguy

Suffer, bitch.

Oops. Just read through the thread again and could have sworn I clicked the smiley before submitting. Sorry. Here ya go:

[Apos]

Let’s face it: virus pown you. They get into you and they manipulate you like a puppet. It’s no side-effect that the common cold makes you cough, makes you drool mucus everywhere, makes you seek the indoor comforts of close spaces with your fellows. That’s how it transmits itself: that’s how it forces YOU to help it jump to other hosts.

And there’s worse news. The primary way we treat the illness is by medicines that cut down on the symptoms we don’t like: the very things the virus relies on to transmit itself. We don’t hurt the virus directly by doing this of course. And what’s the long term evolutionary trend with this pressure if we are successful in eliminating all these bad symptoms? The virus simply becomes even more virulent: breaking through the “cures” to make us just as sneezy and snotty as before even when on the medicine: and probably near death without the medicine.

Honestly, the best way to treat the cold would not be to treat the symptoms, but to encourage more benign forms and then work to transmit THEM faster than the more nasty colds.

[Der_Trihs]

@Apos

And there’s worse news. The primary way we treat the illness is by medicines that cut down on the symptoms we don’t like: the very things the virus relies on to transmit itself. We don’t hurt the virus directly by doing this of course. And what’s the long term evolutionary trend with this pressure if we are successful in eliminating all these bad symptoms? The virus simply becomes even more virulent: breaking through the “cures” to make us just as sneezy and snotty as before even when on the medicine: and probably near death without the medicine.

Perhaps. Or perhaps they’ll evolve to become more subtle, so we don’t take medication in the first place. In the long run that’s what I expect; no matter how nasty they get, we’ll keep on trying to eliminate the symptoms and control it’s spread even if we never manage a cure; they will always face that evolutionary pressure. On the other hand, a more mild, ignorable version won’t face that pressure; it could spread without human interference, because we won’t try to stop it, or possibly even notice it.

In fact, I vaguely recall some recent claims that that is the general trend in disease; that such things as sanitation and penicillin haven’t actually reduced disease at all, but just caused a shift towards benign, unnoticable infections, or even just less-lethal versions.

[ParentalAdvisory]

@chowder

I asked if there was any payment, he said no and so did I

Why do you hate humanity?

[Charger]

Why can’t prevention be the cure? What I mean is, why can’t my coworkers stay at home when they are sick (except that my boss tells us to come to work, to ensure complete office-wide infection)? If everyone who had a cold stayed away from others until it was out of their system, wouldn’t every strain of the “common” cold virus eventually go extinct?

Whenever I catch a cold from someone at work (or the annual family “Christmas Sickness”), I stay at home and chug the chicken soup and orange juice until it dies on me. I refuse to give the cold the satisfaction of using me to find its next victim. Let that be a lesson to the other colds out there I haven’t yet caught. If I catch you, you’re going down the toilet in a pungent, lumpy mass of pulp.