Are you ready, this got really long…
First off, I called the city, no permits required, but all the people that gave me quotes either already knew that or said they’d pull them if required and they’d look into it (and yes, I know, it’s still my responsibility).
Next, the important part, the quotes:
For reference, my house is just shy of 1300 sq ft plus an attached 2 car garage (no attic there) and a 4/12 pitch.
1)Roofer #1) First person I requested a quote from was the person that one of my customers ‘couldn’t speak more highly of’, I went to their website and used the ‘request a quote’ button to fill out a form. After a few days, I emailed them directly and they responded, asked for my address and said they’d ‘be out this week’. The following week I emailed them again (using the email where I sent them my address) and asked if they had been there yet because if they hadn’t, I had a few concerns I specifically wanted addressed in the quote’. They responded by thanking me for sending me the address and telling me they’d ‘be out there this week’. That was over two weeks ago. For all I know they’ve been here, but either way, I haven’t heard back. I’ve emailed them 3 (maybe 4) times and still have no quote or even an update. I’m probably done with them, unless they send me a quote, soon, and it’s really impressive. I always figure, in general, if this is how they treat a potential customer, how will the treat me after I’m actually a customer. IOW, from my POV, they’ve done virtually nothing to acquire my business, why will they make good on any kind of warranty work or any other help after the check has cleared the bank.
So that’s that. I mean, if they call or email me, I’ll hear them out, but they’re probably out of the running just based on their customer service (with me, anyways) so far.
2)Roofer #2) FOAF: As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend that’s in the (mostly) flat roof business, but he gave me the name of his go to guy for his regular roofs. He came out and took a look. I met with him later at my house. The price was good, however, he really, really, didn’t want to touch my skylight and I really, really wanted it replaced (not just reflashed). His concern is that if he orders one and it’s ‘even a quarter of an inch off’ it won’t fit properly and then I end up with a hole in my roof while it gets figured out. His suggestion was that I get the new skylight (making it my problem, I guess). At this point, it was the first person I spoke to. I said that I’d be happy to call Velux and have them come out, measure it and choose the proper replacement and I’ll buy it directly. At that point he can install it (unless Velux can work with the roofers to install it at the same time).
I liked him, my friend swears up and down that ‘this is THE guy, he’s the best, he’ll get the job done and you’ll be happy, really’. My friend has been in the roofing business a long time and has always used this guy.
Also interesting, when he gave me the quote he said ‘sooooo, will this be cash or do you need to use a check?’. When I talked to him I brought that up and asked him if there was a difference if I gave him cash’. He said that I’ll still get a warranty, I’ll still get a receipt, it’s all still on the up and up, but he’ll make it worth my while if I give him cash.
My only issue with him, at this point, is that I have nothing in writing. I don’t know what brand of shingles he’s using, I don’t have a warranty in writing, I don’t know how he’s planning to handle the ridge (hip and ridge shingles vs just bending shingles over the top) etc. He’s supposed to email me a proposal, but I know he has a big (goverment) job this week. I’m sure he’ll call me when he gets back, I’ll nag him for something in writing. Like I said, he was the first person I talked to, I have a lot more knowledge now that I’ve had two ‘real’ quotes.
3)Roofer #3. Great pitch, slightly high pressure, even down to presenting me with three quotes (good/better/best) and asking me which one I’d prefer (I’m sure that was so they’d know which one to push when they called me later). Starter strips instead of flipping the first course backwards, hip and ridge at the top, they’ll handle the skylight, ice and water for 6 feet then synthetic underlayment for the rest (they said it’s just easier to work with). Couple of other things. One thing of note, he very specifically mentioned that my house shouldn’t have a ridge vent. He wants to add one more regular vent, but he said my house (proper) has 44 feet of ridge and only requires 17 feet of ridge vent and that would look odd (not that you could see it from the front). He said that having 44 feet of ridge vent, due to Bernoulli’s principal would exhaust more air than my soffit vents would intake and that would cause problems because the intake would have to come from somewhere, namely, my house, which can cause higher HVAC bills as well as mold/dirt issues in the insulation and on the underside of the decking where air is being drawing up where it shouldn’t be.
After all that…He came in at just about double what the first guy came in at. I almost fell off my chair.
4)Roofer #4. Everything was basically the same, he did add starter strips on the gable ends (R#2 only added them for one of the upgraded packages). He also wanted to use a ridge vent. I asked him about the things the other guy said and he acted like it wasn’t an issue/didn’t know what I was talking about, but said he’d be more than happy to just replace the box vents and leave the quote alone, NBD. He also would take care of the skylight. I asked him about the interior, where it meets the drywall. He said he can have one of his carpenters deal with redoing the trim if it needs it (might just fit it like the old one and not need to be trimmed) and if it’s just a small job, not worry about charging me extra (but I assume he will). This one also wants to put flashing along the gable ends. I don’t recall if the other one did, but when I mentioned to him that I have some rotted out 1x2 that would be covered up by it, he took a look and said “meh, we can cut that out and replace it for like five or ten dollars”, so that’s nice. It’s not that they’re going to add $300 for a few feet of trim. I also noticed that the bid states “heavy asphalt felt” but while we were talking, he mentioned 15# felt. IIRC, that’s the light stuff and 30# is the heavy stuff, but I don’t know if it makes a difference. Also, the first guy, that’s using synthetic, did mention that it’s nearly identical to regular felt, they just use it because it’s easier to work with. For example, if you staple it at one and and roll it to the other end, it’s not going to rip and make you start over. Apparently, that’s common with felt.
So, a few perks of going with this guy over #2 and a few lesser things. Either way, they were considerably cheaper. Cheaper to the point that #2 is probably out of the running just due to their cost.
As for prices
#2 quoted me at a firm $6300, but he’s clearly willing to play ball if I pay cash (which I can). I’m not sure if it’s in the form of a discount or an upgrade, but there’s something on the table.
#3 is $11,140 for the ‘better’ bid +/- about $700 for the good and best plans. I don’t think that includes the skylight, so lets add $750 for a bid of $11890
#4 came in at $8600 for the better plan, good was $1200 less, best is 1200 more. We’re looking at $3000+ less for basically the same job.
Some notes:
I think the most expensive contractor has some ‘prestige’ priced in. All that ‘we’ve been around for a long time’ and ‘we do 700 roofs a year’ and ‘all our roofers have 9 different certifications’ and ‘here’s a picture of the harness system they use’ and ‘listen to my 30 spiel before we even talk about your roof’ helps to build it up in the owners mind. In the end, I’m guessing it’s just as good as everyone else.
FOAF, I’m thinking/hoping, is one of those guys that does just as good of a job as anyone else, he just doesn’t spend $15000 on a website or have a 2 inch binder filled with crap about how his business got started and doesn’t feel the need to spend 2 hours (Roofer 2) selling you when I really only need 20 minutes. But, still, I need something in writing…and I’m still not sure about the skylight, but I’ll call Velux about that. Maybe they charge the same as the other roofers to install it and can coordinate with my roofer to take care of it.
The ridge vent roofer is planning to put ridge vents on the garage as well. I assume it’s mostly so it matches, but it doesn’t seem like a good idea. Letting my garage vetilate even more than it already does, ISTM, would make my house less efficient since the (metal) door and shared wall would get to the same temp as outside quicker and draw heat/AC through the shared wall/door. As it stands, even in the dead of winter, my attached garage is warmer than it is outside and in summer, it’s cooler. However, I’m seeing that it’s common and recommended.
As I said, R2 mentioned that I would only need 17 feet of ridge vent and my house has 44 feet of ridge. R3 wants to put ridge vent on the whole thing. Checking out some calculators (mostly on OwensCorning and GAF websites) they all say I would need about 17 feet of ridge vent to match my square footage. Which matches what R2 says. He also said that I have the right amount of soffit vents but need to add one more box vent. The only thing I can see is that some of the (what I think are) lower quality ridge vents do require closer to 40 feet rather than 17. For example, on my roof, GAF recommends 16-20 feet of nearly all the different vents, but 35 feet of Cobra Hip Vent. That one was filter and the bid does mention a filtered ridge vent, so it’s possible that’s what he was talking about.
If/when I talk to him again, I’ll probably bring these concerns up. I can just remind him that when I talked to him that I why I was concerned about the ridge vent (too much ventilation, not enough exhaust) and I can just tell him that I’ve since talked to a few more roofers who, on their own, suggested I just replace (And add one) the box vents. I can even mention that the GAF and OC websites also suggest the same thing…that 17-20 feet is the correct amount and they specifically, many times, mention that the exhaust can’t exceed the intake (which it would in this case.). I’m sure he’ll just say he can replace (and add one) box vent without batting an eye or even adjusting the cost.
I did also ask about using Ice & Water on the entire roof. They both told me that was sort of pointless. Going on to say that Ice and Water is to prevent Ice Dams, beyond the point where Ice Dams happen, it’s just a waste of money, either the roof is installed properly or it’s not. Reading opinions on the internet, I’m seeing the same thing (from roofers). Various reasons, but mostly the same conclusion, it might be trendy right now, but there’s no point in doing it.
Whew, long post.