Yeah, it’s getting more ridiculous by the hour. Apparently the incident witnessed by McQueary was not the second but the third on-campus incident. Incident #1 happened in 1998 while Sandusky was an employee of Penn State and he admitted to “inappropriate behavior” to campus police at the time. As you’re aware, Sandusky was allowed to resign in 1999 with his record unblemished.
I have a feeling JoePa isn’t out of the woods legally yet. It’s only an opinion but I find it remarkable that McQueary told Curley and Schultz, two men he didn’t know that well, all of the details of the story yet held back info from JoePa, a man he’d known as a recruiter, coach, and boss for years. Curley and Schultz are now under indictment from perjury for lying to a grand jury. Did JoePa lie too?
As a matter of fact, he is currently not only an assistant coach but the recruiting coordinator. He was apparently well-compensated for staying quiet for the past 9 years. And remember that we are not talking about someone who was a kid at the time. He was 28 years old, a former star football player for the university.
First, congrats to everyone for either posting enlightening information or stating well thought opinions.
I learned of the story on Saturday. This morning when there was no Pit thread I thought that somebody had to say something. I thought it would get a few hits and replies, then die. You never know.
I have no agenda regarding Paterno and PSU. I’m a B10 guy and was happy when they joined. I’ve always admired Paterno. In most B10 games I pulled for PSU. I always pull for them in their bowl games. Yes, I thought that Paterno should have retired years ago but I was happy that he had the career wins record over Bowden. I am beginning to wonder if Paterno hung on so long because he was trying to keep the lid on the powder keg.
So, learning this story is a “there is no Santa Claus” event. There were things about Paterno that I didn’t like, such as his politics, but that didn’t diminish my respect for the job he did. Not being a PSU alumnus or fan it’s not gut wrenching but I find it very disturbing. Very disturbing. I was never molested as a child so there is no trauma nerve that this has struck. However, I do have sons that aspired to athletic competition at a high level. I have also coached kids and understand the basic trust they put in their coaches so maybe that why it sickens me so much. I think of myself as basically a decent person and always thought the same of Joe Pa. The disappointment is profound.
The idea that he didn’t know the depth of depravity is implausible to me. I think we will find out that a lot of people knew a lot about what was going on. Why was Sandusky even allowed to set foot on the campus? The idea that it was a different time is just BS. That smacks of the Catholic Church response. Nobody should buy that.
Jackknifed Juggernaut- I respect your reaction. It isn’t easy.
Duke, Martin Hyde, and others, thanks for the solid info and perspective.
The Pit can be rough place to play but I now have a better feeling that at some level there is basic moral compass.
I don’t usually agree with what Jason Whitlock has to say but I found what he wrote today to be very thought-provoking (in a kind of sickening way):
McQueary, apparently, has made his deal with the devil. Keep your mouth shut, you can go places. Just try to get the image of the old man raping a kid in the showers out of your mind for as long as you can.
I think we’re being a little tough on the one person in this story who actually tried to do something about this. He told everybody above him about what he saw. If he truly wanted to sweep everything under the rug, he wouldn’t have even done that.
I’ve never walked in on a 10-year-old getting a blowjob from an adult, so I can’t really fault him for getting the heck out of there. Heck, I don’t even know what he actually did in the shower room that day.
I would like to think that I would have done more at the time, followed up with the cops after the fact, and seen the whole thing through. He did tell quite a few people in positions of power around him, and I’m sure he’ll be haunted by his inaction for the rest of his life. He may even deserve some punishment under the law, but I don’t find him to be the embodiment of evil.
IMHO Paterno cannot be convicted under the PA mandidtory reporting law. As I read it, the statute only applies to one who regularly comes into contact with children. I don’t think Paterno’s position as head coach includes that. I also have doubts about whether the statute is constitutional or not, but I haven’t done any research on that issue one way or the other.
One would think that after the rape was orignally reported to him and after he reported it up the ladder to the AD, that he would’ve followed up on it the next time he saw Sandusky around campus. The whole incident just sickens me.
“Trying to do something about this” would have involved not only reporting the incident to your higher-ups, but also, I don’t know…calling 911 to report a crime in progress? Following up after the incident to make sure it was investigated? At some point in the past nine years saying “Hey, Joe, remember that thing I told you about? Whatever happened with that?”
Instead of accepting an assistant coach position in the same organization that doesn’t seem to take child rape seriously.
Sorry. No dice. At some point a man has to do the right thing even at his own peril. This was the definition of cowardice. He should be ashamed of himself.
I’m thinking McQueary didn’t really see what everybody here thinks he saw, and wasn’t all that sure about it himself at the time. Does it really sound plausible that a grown man raping a ten year old kid in the anus isn’t going to result in painful cries and shrieks that the kid would be incapable of holding back even if he tried, not to mention near hysterical tears and sobs afterward and an inablilty to walk or sit normally, both of which conditions you would think would draw the interest of his teachers and parents? And that the child would not be so grossed out, hurt and horrified that he wouldn’t tell someone what had happened to him?
My guess is that McQueary got a snapshot of some activity that wasn’t quite what he thought it was, such as Sandusky pretending to westle with the kid or trying to get his jollies from some sort of nude contact. Then when McQueary reported it to Paterno, Paterno thought it sounded implausible for the reasons I outlined above and believed that McQueary was mistaken about what he had seen but still thought that whatever was going on should be looked into so he reported it, figuring that if anything amiss had been going on it would be dealt with by the university and/or the police, if police action were deemed to be called for. As it is this thread is reminding me way too much of the Nancy Grace show.
Then again I could be completely wrong, but no one here knows one way or the other. What we do know though is that full on anal intercourse with a ten year old boy is unlikely, again for the reasons I stated; and that Joe Paterno has a decades-long reputation for honesty and integrity both in his personal life and on the football field. Thus I think giving him the benefit of the doubt in this particular instance is more than called for.
It’s been pointed out a few times upthread that the GA didn’t walk in on anal rape. I think he walked in on Sandusky performing oral sex on a 10-year-old.
Unfortunately Starving Artist I think you’re more or less wishing for something that just isn’t true. You really think a 28 year old guy would hear “slapping and the sounds of sex” and then see a kid pinned against a wall with an old dude thrusting at him and that’s somehow not anal rape?
I don’t necessarily want to take this thread down an avenue that might lead to a mixture of jokes and etc because anal sex often does that, but for the sake of it needing to be said, is your understanding of anal intercourse such that you think anytime it happens the person on the receiving end is in such profound pain they can’t help but scream out in “extremely loud” volume that no one could help but hear?
The truth of the matter is this was probably not a prison style, vicious and forceful rape in which three guys hold someone down and the victim is fighting with everything they have and their assailant is basically doing their best to inflict maximum pain and suffering. Most likely, and this is the truly horrible part, Sandusky had forced himself on this boy many, many times before. Even a 10 year old, after being forced into such a thing a few times could probably adjust in such a way that they could suffer it without screaming so loud the whole world hears it.
I do know this, I know many cases in which male children have been raped many, many times by family members in the same house as the rest of their family and no one hears it. So I’m going to assume that it’s not like science fiction that someone, even a 10 year old, could get anally raped without making so much noise the whole facility heard it.
It’s actually been pointed out several times that it was a janitor that walked in on Sandusky performing oral sex on a young boy. The GA did in fact walk in on anal rape and it is described explicitly in the grand jury document that was linked to at least twice already.
It’s been pointed out a few times upthread that the GA didn’t walk in on anal rape. I think he walked in on Sandusky performing oral sex on a 10-year-old.
It was explained to me upthread by a couple of posters that it was a janitor who observed the instance of oral sex and that McQueary was the one who reported the so-called anal rape.
The grand jury report explicitly says he saw the boy being anally raped. So, assuming McCreary is not lying now, we DO know what he saw. He also testified that he reported this to higher levels, and the two administrators are charged with perjury because they denied that they were told.
As to the noise – if this kid had been previously raped and abused, which is certainly possible, he may already have learned that he better keep his mouth shut too. Plus, horrible as it is to contemplate, repeated abuse probably would reduce the shock and pain of subsequent abuse.
I think I agree. It seems to me that the vast majority of people respond very poorly to sudden emotional trauma. I’d like to think that, if I were in his shoes, I would have stormed over and just beat the living shit out of Sandusky… but honestly, I probably would have puked my guts out for 10 minutes and then belatedly lurched over to the scene that Sandusky fled 9 minutes prior.
Still, questions of how much McQueary followed up with JoePa, why he didn’t call the cops himself, what he did (or didn’t do) if he saw Sandusky on campus (which is likely), etc. make me think that he’s, at some level, complicit in sweeping this under the rug.
ETA: About the noise, the indictment says that McQueary heard a slapping noise that he thought was probably sex in progress. So no screaming, sobbing, etc. So I lamentably agree with Boyo Jim that the poor kid was probably traumatized past the point of crying out.
I seem to have some bewilderment as to why the person who saw the accused performing the act did not call the police.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Penn State athletic department did wrong, and should pay whatever price is appropriate, but for Pete’s sake, if I came across an adult having sex with a ten-year-old, I wouldn’t think, “I’d better talk to Coach,” I’d call the fucking cops.