This argument labels Joe Paterno as a pedophile.
What I am saying is that we should take Paterno’s allegations against Paterno with a grain of salt. Sure, he says Paterno was told that Sandusky did something of a sexual nature to a child while alone with him in the Penn State showers at night. He goes on to claim that Paterno responded to this knowledge by never reporting it to police, and continuing to let Sandusky bring kids to practices, camps, and other Second Mile events with Penn State participation.
If we believe Paterno’s damning claims about Paterno, then Paterno is thoroughly untrustworthy and immoral, and we should not believe him. But if we don’t believe him, then we should believe him. It’s a logical paradox.
You lost me. I thought we were calling Starving Artist a pedophile, not Joe Paterno.
ETA: For the record, I do not think Joe Paterno is a pedophile but I think he acted with extreme disregard for the welfare of a child.
Your post offers that the defense of Heinrich Himmler, Josef Mengele or Adolph Eichmann, all active and high-ranking Nazis, is equivilant to the defense of Paterno, who (as far as I know) is not an active and high-ranking pedophile.
Absolutely agreed. Joe Paterno did fuck up, and did do wrong, and should have done better. That’s not my argument. My argument is that labelling as a pedophile those who (for whatever ridiculous reason) chose to defend his inaction is wrong and unsupported.
It’s the Pit, and you disagree with me, and you’re calling me names, therefore I shall ignore you.
Brave, aren’t you?
ETA: this is the first time that I know of that I have been placed on an ignore list. I’m uncertain as to whether (given the poster) I should be proud.
That wasn’t my point. The analogy I was attempting to make is that if hypothetical Poster X defends and condones Nazi-like behavior, I might draw the conclusion that Poster X is anti-Semitic, even if he doesn’t come right out and say it. I personally don’t think it’s that much of a stretch.
I’m not labeling Starving Artist as a pedophile because he is defending Joe Paterno’s inaction. He makes my pedophile alarm go off by posting things like:
“A strong case for anal rape this does not make. Like it or not, tickling, hugging, wrestling, or “lessons in showering” all remain within the realm of possibility.”
There are numerous other creepy posts, but I only went back a few pages. Again this has nothing to do with his defense of Joe Paterno’s inaction…it has to do with his position that a situation involving a naked 50 year old man showering with a 10 year old boy and a witness seeing the boy with his hands up against the wall and hearing rhythmic slapping sounds could somehow be innocent tickling, hugging, wrestling or lessons in showering. THAT is what makes him sound like a pedophile, not his defense of Paterno’s inaction.
Exactly, Enola Gay.
Frankly, it isn’t his defense of Paterno that makes my alarm bells ring, it’s his defense of Sandusky.
Well, I think it’s a stretch. Regardless . . .
As far as I can tell, Starving Artist’s defense of Paterno’s inaction is based on his belief that McQueary did not accurately report what he saw to Paterno.
Frankly, I blame McQueary more than anyone else in this scenario except Sandusky.
Also adding to the suspicion that SA might be a Bad Person across the board (and hence maybe a bit bent given his obsession with proving that anything short of anal rape is not that big a deal) is the constant lying required to keep up this bizarre position (which would help no one but pedos and their enablers). You have sworn testimony of “anal intercourse” and “fondling or sexual contact” with a young boy. Those are completely consistent with each other, contradicted by no other evidence, and completely inconsistent with non-sexual tickling, hugging, or lessons in showering. So he has to just make this shit up, again and again and again, out of thin air. Sounds a bit sociopathic to me.
There is a profound vein of dishonesty that permeates this entire board when it comes to argumentation. With regard to how it comes into play with me, most of it can be found in descriptions of what I’ve allegedly said, which are virtually never factual, never honest, and frequently the result either of knee-jerk hysteria or abject stupidity, if not a combination of both.
I made a half-dozen or so cite requests not too long ago challenging people to cite just where it was I said some of the things they were claiming I said. Not. a. single. one. could. do. it! I don’t think they even tried. They simply carried on lying about what I said and describing me in various negative and/or insulting ways based upon those lies.
Here’s a quick example: some idiot claimed that all types of sex abuse were equally bad. I said that tickling, wrestling, hugging and so forth were clearly not as egregious and harmful as full-on anal rape. Next thing you know, however, I’m being accused of defending Paterno even though he knew naked tickling, wrestling and hugging was going on, or that I think they are just peachy myself and therefore am creepy and a pedophile apologist.
Virtually nothing bandied about in this thread alleging what I’ve said is true, and absolutely nothing bandied about in this thread about which suggests or claims that I’m sympathetic toward or uncaring about pedophilia is true. It’s all lies, every bit of it.
I’m too busy right now to devote more time to this subject, but if I did, it would be no trouble whatsoever to point to lies, and in most cases numerous, egregious lies, told about me, what I’ve said, and what I think or believe by:
Huerta88 (number one both both in number of posts and number of lies)
ElvisL1ves
Guinastasia
miss elizabeth
Enola Gay
Condescending Robot
John DiFool
SnakesCatLady
And that’s just going back the last few pages (the total would undoubtedly be much higher if not for the fact that with the top four of that list posting 95% of the posts and almost 100% of the bullshit, hardly anyone else can get a word in edgewise).
Sometimes I wonder why I bother with this place, given the deep, dark streak of dishonesty and cowardice that virtually defines this place when it comes to the Pit and GD. But then I’ll start reading a thread in one of those forums and it all comes back to me - I just can’t stand letting dishonesty and idiocy go unchallenged, and believe me, if not for me and a very small handful of other posters, no dishonesty or idiocy would go unchallenged around this place at all.
You’re on our own.
SA, I’m betting taking some time off would be good for you.
I do a lot of counseling, and those who can’t make a point and then move on end up as extremely unhappy people.
Those that fixate on a particular argument and can’t give it up spiral inward into other types of mental health issues, unless they actively make a break.
But many need counseling, meds, and a good support group for that.
And that’s without the “list of transgressors” and the messianic streak of
which actually is so over the top that it does make me wonder if I’m being too trusting, taking you at your word.
If this is all just a charade, if you’re just messing with us and don’t really believe what you say, I’d actually be relieved that you were just a jerk and not in need of imminent professional help.
(Remember that XKCD comic? *“Come to bed.” “I can’t. Someone’s still wrong on the internet.” *Well, it’s not as funny in real life… especially not when it’s you.)
(Or me… I should go to bed…)
Do you agree that doing any of these things while naked in the shower with a 10 year old boy warrants a call to the police?
Nah. I appreciate your concern but I’ve been doing this for years with no ill effect. Still, having said that, I’m actually posting a good deal less than I used to. Around 2004 - 2006 I was regularly posting at the rate I have been here in four or five threads simultaneously. And in fact prior to this thread I’d scarcely been posting at all for the last two or three months. Frankly, the place just isn’t as lively as it used to be.
It would be quite a bit easier to make a point and move on if people didn’t insist on being dishonest about what I’d said. You might take a look at my first few posts to this thread. They were the very model of moderation and reason. I didn’t come here looking for a fight.
Not necessary at all, trust me. My persona here is a good deal different than I am in real life. (And I contrast this place with real life intentionally.) People have told me on occasion that they wish they could be happy all the time like I am. Really, I’m nothing offboard like I am here. And the reason I’m the way I am here is because the people who are here are the way they are. I just can’t stand lies, intellectual dishonesty and wrong-headed bullshit, and this place is a veritable 18-wheeler full of it.
The list of transgressors is necessary because they’ve succeeded in convincing more reasonable people that their outrageous and contemptible lies about what I’ve said and what I think regarding the serious issue of child sex abuse are valid. And there’s no messianic purpose behind what I said about the handful of honest people around here. Among them I would count Shodan, Bricker, Sam Stone (unless he’s finally given up on this place), John Mace, Marley23, tomndebb and the like. Each of these people I consider honest and principled, even though I’ve conflicted with some of them myself. You can read anything any of these people say and be confident that there’s not a bogus assertion anywhere to be found regarding the thinking or behavior of other posters, and when they argue, they do so without casting ridiculous, utterly spurious aspersions upon their opponents.
Nope, not a charade. I’m honest in every word I post.
I think that what you may not realize is that this place is largely recreational for me. This isn’t to say that I take the board or my participation here lightly, after all people who play ball recreationally still give it their all. But it gives my mind things to chew on and a chance to confront the kind of wrongheaded idiocy that I’ve found objectionable for so long but which has heretofore come from sources that were either anonymous or unreachable.
So really, there’s no cause for concern. I’m doing just fine and once this thread has run its course I’ll probably slip back into my previous pattern the last few months of not posting much, because like I said the place just isn’t as lively as it used to be. Plus new interests wax and wane and I’ve had several waxing in my life lately.
So again, not to worry. Things are nowhere near as dire they seem to appear from your perspective.
Really, SA, just answer Rubystreak’s question.
Analogous: If you know your neighbor across the street is on vacation and a truck is backed up to their garage while people are loading it with furniture, electronics and other personal property, do you call the police?
Everything you have posted here tells us that your response would be to close your curtains, take a nap and claim that you had no legal or moral responsibility.
Now, what if it was your house and that was the response of your neighbor? You knew that they saw it and did nothing because they weren’t legally required to. (Oh, why say anything, it might be the Salvation Army. It’s probably not, no logo on the truck, but you never know, maybe, just maybe, the Salvation Army can’t afford to paint logos these days and I wouldn’t want to raise false alarms. They empty out the neighbor’s houses all the time. Don’t want to take any chances on involving the police when it might not be anything. Wouldn’t want to waste their time with suspicious criminal activity. Think of all the parking tickets they didn’t get a chance to write.)
How do you live with yourself? Do you even own a mirror?
Again: Really, SA, just answer Rubystreak’s question.
Yes, I know I’m feeding the troll but sometimes you just feel that you have to express yourself. Nasty animals in the zoo get fed just so that we can get a good look at them. Maybe the Pit is a bit like that.
Not necessarily, no. It all depends on the context and upon what systems and laws have been established to handle it if the context is wrong.
When I was a boy I used to go to several of the local public park swimming pools. Showering before getting into the pool was required and men and older teen-age boys were there and we all co-mingled without incident even though there were times when teasing, towel-snapping, chasing each other around and other forms of horseplay were the norm. And you better believe that if some 10 or 12 or 14 year old boy towel-popped one of the adult guys on the when he had his back turned, there would be retaliation that sometimes involved physical nonsexual contact. And when I was in junior high and high school, the coaches came into the locker room and spoke to kids while they were still in the shower all the time.
And IIRC, you said upthread that exposing one’s penis to children is always against the law. If that’s so, then how do you account for this little scene in San Francisco (NSFW), where adults run around naked in public for one reason or another all the time, including naked bicycle rides every year in which little children - and I mean like babies, four-year-old, etc. - stand on the sidewalks watching with their parents like would happen with any other parade.
So no, depending upon the situation and context, it isn’t always illegal when a nude adult male is visible to a minor.
And on preview:
Looks like I can now add R. P. McMurphy to the list of people who can’t seem to post about me without also lying about it at the same time. Thanks. I’d been waffling over whether to include you and I appreciate your taking the time to tip the scale in the right direction.
I’m honored.
Sure.
On the other hand, if the house was located on university property, and I knew that the law and for whatever reason accepted practice required that suspicion of criminal activity be reported to the university campus police, I would call the campus police.
And now I’m out for the rest of the night. So happy trails, all.
Starving Artist, if I’m not mistaken every post I have made concerning you has contained a quote box containing words listed as having been written by you. How have I lied about what you wrote?
I do not think you are a pedophile or an enabler. I think you have found someone you respected wasn’t as worthy of that respect as you believed he was. That’s not fun, but defending his non-action isn’t going to make it any less true.
If the incident had been properly reported at the time it occured, it’s more than likely the child in the shower could have been identified. Paterno would have been hailed as a hero instead of having to leave in disgrace. Then again, hindsight is always 20-20.
Just for the record, I do not appreciate being called a liar. I have no reason to make up anything you’re written; you’ve done a fine job all by yourself.
Don’t insult me with more of your bullshit. The analogy would be that you called up the assistant director of campus housing while clearing your conscience with the fiction that you “called somebody.” You didn’t call 911 and say “I think there might be a crime in progress, get over here.”
You are lame beyond belief. Really, do you have a mirror?
Yea, feed the trolls. Keep 'em alive for our entertainment.