My youngest son spent two years in schools in the US, between the ages of 12 and 14. At the time, I was on a temporary employment visa, so he was not an “illegal alien”, but he certainly was not on the path to US citizenship. He was old and intelligent enough to work out for him self that he should stand for the pledge out of politeness, but that as an Australian citizen he should not recite it.
Growing up I was probably the worse student in the school in every sense, basically everything in my life was a pile of shit. I still remember the good feeling I got each morning when we said the pledge, I felt like I was part of something good. There seems to be a general lack of gratitude and sense of entitlement that has taken over.
We all knew it was just nonsense trying to grind us down. We’d stand up and mutter illegible words and wait for the horror to be over. You could stand up and be silent, but if you refused to even stand they’d send you to the principal’s office. The most hateful part of each day.
WAY past time for it to be abandoned.
This is one of my litmus tests that sort out who is reasonable and who is not. Of course the PoA is a PitA and there is no reason for anyone to say it. So we force the children to memorize lines and put their hands over their hearts every morning. Virtually none of them have any idea what they’re saying nor do any of them care anything more than getting the stupid piece of shit over so they can sit back down. Want your kids to mindlessly repeat their love for a piece of cloth and their nation? Maybe North Korea is better suited to your temperament.
Yes the kids still say it, despite the Facebook memes you’re bound to see saying that they no longer do because we’re afraid of offending anyone. I wish that was true, but as long as the knucklewalkers of the right exist in sufficient numbers, we shall have to subject our children to reciting this mindless piece of trite.
Some years ago, I was able to go to an NFL game in Denver–the Denver Broncos against the Atlanta Falcons, as I recall. (Denver won.)
Naturally, before the game, the US national anthem was played. Americans placed their hands over their hearts–I simply stood respectfully, and removed my hat, and held it by my side.
After that was over, the woman to my right took me to task for not placing my hand over my heart during the anthem. “Are you not a proud American?”
My response: “I’m not an American. I’m Canadian, here on vacation.” She apologized, and we went on to enjoy the game. She had a lot of questions about Canadian football too, which I was happy to answer. It was a good game, and we had a good time.
It seems to me that Americans are unaware that they very often have foreigners in their midst; and that those foreigners cannot show allegiance to the US or other American institutions, for obvious reasons. When I’m in the US, I can certainly respect the US flag, but I cannot pledge allegiance to it, nor can I hold my hand over my heart when “The Star Spangled Banner” plays before a sporting event.
Discussions like this always remind me of the General in Catch-22 who went mad with loyalty pledges. You had to sign a pledge to get in the mess hall and another to get out, but there were many more.
There is a limit to how patriotic you can force people to be. If they aren’t loyal already, signing or reciting some phrase isn’t going to make much difference, and may cause a backlash.
Well, I’m an immigrant. And I took an oath when I came to this country: the Oath of Citizenship.
So I am not really sure what reciting the Pledge every day did for me. I need to pledge allegiance to the country my parents brought me 7,000 miles to? The one we gave up our entire way of life for? We already pledged, by traveling here and becoming citizens as fast as we can.
I too think the Pledge needs to just go away. If you want your citizens to take oaths of citizenship, fine, but they should understand what it means.
I don’t know what’s wrong with you America-hating communists. There’s nothing wrong with a pledge of allegiance to one’s country. We need to have a strong country so why not pledge allegiance to it?
Too many non sequiturs
As was pointed out above, a Pledge is something you give ONCE. Insisting that I repeat it daily (or even on a regular basis) is tantamount to accusing me of lying when I gave it the first time.
And if you’re not going to believe that I meant it in the first place, why are you going to believe me when I recite it again each morning? :dubious:
That’s interesting. I’ve never put my hand over my heart for the National Anthem. While I’ve seen it done, I’d estimate it’s less than 10% of any given sports crowd. Maybe Denver is different.
Not sure if this is a joke or not.
On the off chance it is serious, what’s “wrong” with the Pledge has been outlined in this thread. It’s mindless and offensive authoritative Jiggery-pokery.
A strong country doesn’t need to force its children to recite a pledge. They end up perfectly good citizens because of the values of our citizens and founding documents (as amended). Speaking of communists, I believe they often had public displays of patriotism that rubbed me the wrong way too.
It is different, yes. The oaths for officers and for enlisted men are also slightly different from each other.
I’ve met many permanent residents of the US who couldn’t bring themselves to request citizenship because of the line in the Oath of Allegiance that goes “I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen”, because they feel it would be a lie so long as they still carry their country of origin in their heart. Americans usually respond “but it doesn’t matter, it’s just words!” Talk about watering down, uh?
The Pledge, well, so long as the attitude is that you can stand politely and not say anything, I’ve never heard of anybody having a problem. Non-citizens being told to put their hands on their hearts and explaining that “it’s not my country”, yes, but in every instance I know of, that was that. I’ve been asked why I wasn’t saluting or standing with my hand on my heart for “my flag” as it passed in a 4th of July parade, had to show passport (apparently I looked and sounded American enough), but again once proof of non-citizenship was shown, no problem.
I have to agree. It’s kind of pointless. I would ask an adult to take it once, and make it a legally binding agreement.
When we were first married, I told my wife that I loved her, and that if I ever changed my mind, I would let her know. She didn’t seem to go for it, though.
Regards,
Shodan
I recited it in elementary school and didn’t have a problem doing so. Y’all must be more revolutionary than myself.
Cute. However, if my wife demanded I publicly pledge my devotion to her every day, we might have some issues.
We did out vows, everything else is private and when we’re feeling it.
It’s time to burn the Nazis who enslave our children with this piece of shit horror show.
The mention upthread of the singing of the National Anthem reminded me of Terry Pratchett’s “People’s Revolution of the Glorious Twenty-Fifth of May” in “Night Watch”. And Lord Winder’s officers’ discussion about it after they were repelled by the revolutionaries singing of then Ankh Morpork National Anthem, We Can Rule You Wholesale.
Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love, and a Hard-Boiled Egg!
As a 20 year US veteran, I’m appalled at some of these posts.
I don’t have the heart to correct you all…
For the poor multitude that don’t understand the pledge, I implore you to google “Red Skelton’s Pledge of Allegiance”