As I’ve been attempting to convey, this is in fact the problem. I do talk that way.
I think you’re just fine in English. Give it a whirl.
Seconded. Plus you’ll have a good sub-editing team over here at Cafe Society.
to jjimm, you nailed me to the wall with your comments. I did mention I am an amature and have never been published for reason? Thank you for your brutal revue, it is the only way I can learn. I know I also constantly jump from first person to third person. It is a hobby, thank god paying the mortgage does not depend on it. Again, thanks for honest opinion.
Hey, Priceguy, this worked for me. I was writing a fanfic with characters from the Marvel Universe in it. I had to talk in Spider-man’s voice and all of a sudden my flourishes and explanations had to go. Because Peter Parker is a seventeen or twenty year old guy with a New York accent who tends to be kinda terse. Twenty sentences in his voice broke me of my own voice and freed me to write like somebody totally else!
Try this assignment. Watch a movie you love which has some terse modern guys in it. Write a brief episode out of their lives, before after or during the movie, romantic or action, your choice. Watch how short your words get. Have fun being someone else!
Hell, it’s half the reason to become a writer.
The other half being to make things happen the way YOU want them to happen, and not how that inconvenient Reality makes them happen.
Writers - do I lie???
Priceguy, I sympathise with you. I’ve got the same problem, to an extent: dialogue-wise, my characters are either casual to the point that would make Jeff “The Dude” Lebowski look like a workaholic, or they’re making some kind of Epic Speech not entirely unlike those favoured by the major protaganists of The Bible (at least in the film versions thereof, anyway).
And, like yourself, I’ve got this problem because thats how I talk- and I do admit to a tendency to lean towards the “Welcome… TO THE WORLD OF TOMORROW!” style of overstatement, in some circumstances.
Unfortunately, my inability to write convincing dialogue for stories, along with a fondness for getting bogged down in minutae, pretty much kills any chance I have if becoming a successful fiction writer.
For example, I know that the secret to good fiction writing is to let the reader create their own images in their head based on the story you’re telling.
So, saying “The Game Warden carried an old rifle that he’d acquired many years ago” will allow the reader to mentally insert any old rifle they like into their mental image of the Game Warden and his equipment, but people like myself say “Yes, but what kind of rifle? What calibre? Who made it? How did he get it?”
So, if I was to write about the sort of rifle the Game Warden was carrying, it would look something like this:
“The Game Warden carried an old but serviceable .303 calibre Lee-Enfield No 4 Mk II bolt-action rifle- one of the last imported into the country before Britain cut them loose in 1963 after the conclusion of the Mau Mau Emergency- and although it lacked the flashiness of a modern Holland & Holland or Weatherby rifle, it was a useful reminder of his Military Service days and more than capable of stopping most of the animals he was likely to come across- and for the larger creatures, well, his Land Rover could outrun them any day of the week.”
Now, if you know Military Rifles and/or history then that information is both interesting and relevant. But if you’re in the 99% of the population that couldn’t tell a Mauser from an AK-47, it’s a needless complication that disrupts the flow of the story and drags you out of it, making you go “What the hell kind of gun is that? I don’t know what that is.” And that’s not good from the point of view of either the Author or the Reader.
Fortunately, a fondness for minutae is almost a must for Non-Fiction writing, so that’s where I find myself doing most of my writing work. One day, though, I hope to be able to write dialogue that doesn’t sound like it was written for a Biblical Epic and spoken by Adam West…
Keep at it, though! You’ll get there eventually! And as others have said, just listening to people talk is an excellent place to start, although it’s amazing how dull most people’s conversations really are…
So come up with a compromise. How about “The Game Warden carried an old but serviceable .303 calibre Lee-Enfield No 4 Mk II bolt-action rifle.”
The part about its importation into Britain is unnecessary, and the rest is already summed up with “old but serviceable.”
Of course, that wouldn’t be perfect, but it’s better.
Seenidog, I liked that excerpt of yours. I didn’t find the narrative confusing. I like how you have a style going.
Suggestions:
(1) Take somebody else’s character (but probably not Gandalf). Better yet, take two characters from entirely different books. Put them in a situation where they have to have a conversation. Don’t put dialog tags on it–make them memorable because they talk like themselves. Time yourself–5 minutes. Write constantly during that 5 minutes.
(2) Getting drunk every time you sit down to write has worked for people in the past. But it sounds like you need to do something to relax. Here’s something: take one page from a book you love and copy it word-for-word. Again, set a time limit. Or–I like this one–purposely write the worst dialog you can think of, utter tripe, every cliche in the book, that kind of thing.
(3) Write either first thing after waking or last thing before sleeping, whichever way is furthest away from your full consciousness and any defenses you’ve formed.
One character talking like you talk, however stilted, is not an insurmountable problem. But if they all sound like that, it’s a problem because they all sound alike.
It probably won’t matter if your plot is good enough.
Seconded. Priceguy, but for your occasional reminders that you are Swedish I would never have guessed. Do it.
Sorry man, I didn’t mean to be brutal. I just wanted to say what I saw, and I apologise if it made you feel bad. I too write, too infrequently, and I too have never been published. (My wife has a master’s degree in creative writing, and hasn’t been published either.) I do, however, edit a hell of a lot, for work - hence my mean demeanour. I enjoyed what you wrote, nonetheless. Keep it up, you’re doing better than me!
Hmm, well, I think the best advice so far is by ddgryphon.
Listen.
Listen to your family, your friends, your colleagues. Listen to strangers you pass on the street or who sit beside you on a bus. Re-watch your favorite movies or TV series and pay attention to those whose characters’ dialogue most captures your attention. Use a notebook and jot down anything that’s especially memorable or effective. Read your favorite author and underline (in pencil, of course!) passages of dialgoue that really strike a chord.
Of course, there’s no single “correct” way to write modern dialogue. Writers acclaimed for dialogue vary wildly in style even among themselves – the ‘tough’ styles of Damon Runyon, David Mamet, Spike Lee and Quentin Tarentino are all pretty distinct, as are the witty styles of folks like Moss Hart, Ben Hecht, Aaron Sorkin, and Christopher Hampton.
The whole point of all this is to train yourself to hear all the wonderful idiosyncrasies of speech. Only then will you be able to reproduce them with any ease or elan.
BTW, feel free to copy your favorites at first. It’s no sin to mimic someone else’s style while one’s experimenting with one’s own. Eventually you’ll find your real voice. (Which you can then generously share with your characters.)
Yeah, I’m with the “listen” folks. Listen to conversations in line at the store, on the street, wherever. Pay attention to how they say things.
When I’m writing (disclaimer–I’ve hardly sold anything so far, and in addition my process may not suit you) I try to hear my characters. That is, I don’t just say, “So, what is it that this seven-armed creature from beyond space needs to say right now?” I mean, I do that. And then I imagine my seven-armed creature, as vividly as possible, down to things like posture and attitude, and then I listen in my head for the sound of its voice. Nine times out of ten this gets me the line that sounds like that particular seven-armed creature from beyond space. Or it gets me one that doesn’t quite feel right, but since I’m working so hard at getting the character imagined properly, a false line will show itself as false, and I start over again building up the image and the sound of the voice.
I’m hoping that’s clear. And maybe remotely helpful.
But listening to everyone around you talk is indispensable. You probably don’t even need to tape people, just <i>listen</i> and then ponder what makes one person sound different from another.
I’ve had this problem myself from time to time–if I slip into my own voice in dialogue, it seems unrealistic for most characters. You can add me to the crowd that advises listening above all else, but I’ll add a few additional suggestions:
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When you find yourself using your own voice in dialogue, cast someone else in the roles–friends, family, coworkers, or anyone else you know well. Imagine how they would get the point across. You don’ t have to use their exact mannerisms; just use them to break out of your habitual speech patterns.
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Consider taking some acting lessons, with emphasis on improvisation. Learning how to stay in character may help. I haven’t had formal acting lessons, but I’ve done lots of roleplaying and some improvisational acting, and my dialogue has improved as a result. Maybe ask for some dialect coaching, too–nothing breaks a speech pattern like switching an accent or dialect, and it’s fun at parties, too.
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Stand up. No, I don’t mean comedy. When you’re having trouble with a piece of dialogue, stand up and step away from your keyboard. Think about the character’s position–is he standing ramrod straight and delivering a speech? Leaning forward and whispering? Slumped against a wall? Whatever he’s doing, assume that position, and try speaking the lines aloud. Your stance affects the way you say things, and phrasing that seems natural while sitting at a desk may be obviously wrong when you’re lying down. (Also, moving around a bit can make you feel more awake and alert…just don’t move away so far that you don’t go back to writing. :))
Here’s a simple workaround…if all your characters talk like they’re in a High Fantasy novel, why not make that your specialty?
Ok, serious now. Writing natural-sounding dialogue has never been a problem for me, although I do struggle sometimes making the dialogue sound distinct for each character. The trick is to give each character certain catchphrases, specific modes of speech (some speak in fragments, others in run-on sentences) and different words they use to describe the same thing – one person says, “I guess that’s true,” the other one says, “I suppose that’s true.”
Have you finished a first draft yet? You might want to do that first. Just get the story on paper, focus on your strong points and worry about the rest later.
No. Bitter experience has taught me that I’m a natural basher.