I've read the bible......

[SecondJudith]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

I don’t think theists are stupid or evil, at least not categorically. (Some, obviously, are, but so are some atheists and agnostics).

Besides, I can never be a complete atheist. I mean, there’s the Athena thing.

Indeed. I’m not a theist, but I am very active religiously, and it does get a bit frustrating. I empathise with the anti-fundie rage, though!

@Skald_the_Rhymer

I’m not sure I see Satan as playing chicken, but the Satan of Job is not the enemy of Heaven. He works in Heaven. He is quite explicitly doing his job, and to blame him for what happens to job is as silly as it would be to call the Angel of Death a murderer and a sinner for what it did to just to the first-born of Egypt.

Yes, I know that. I don’t think I said anywhere that I blamed Satan, and I don’t think there’s anything inherent in chicken (or bets) that means they can’t be on the same team - it seems to me that in the writer’s theology, God must keep Satan around to keep her on her toes.

@Skald_the_Rhymer

So do you agree that Yahweh loses the (moral) argument, and knows it?

Certainly feels it, yes.

@Skald_the_Rhymer

Do you think Yahweh realized that he had erred in the Flood?

Absolutely, I do, because of the covenant made with Noah afterwards. If the flood was the right choice then, why couldn’t it be the right choice again sometime in the future? “I promise I will never ever do that again” is what you say when you’ve made a mistake and recognise it.

Thank you for the book recommendation! I’ve read and very much enjoyed Harold Bloom’s Book of J, even though Harold Bloom usually makes me want to pull my hair out, and there are disappointingly few books in the area that I’ve been able to find.

[drm]

As a kid I read it (Good News version, I think) because I was in church every week. When I was locked in as an atheist at 15 or 16 I read it again. This time I read the King James Version. My memory isn’t good enough to make any real comparisons at this point, but at the time I was looking for a pretty literal translation without having to learn actual latin (whether I found it, is a different argument, I’m just explaining the thought process I had as a 15 or 16 year old).

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@drm

As a kid I read it (Good News version, I think) because I was in church every week. When I was locked in as an atheist at 15 or 16 I read it again. This time I read the King James Version. My memory isn’t good enough to make any real comparisons at this point, but at the time I was looking for a pretty literal translation without having to learn actual latin (whether I found it, is a different argument, I’m just explaining the thought process I had as a 15 or 16 year old).

Um… the Bible was not written in Latin. It was written in Aramaic, ancient Greek, and ancient Hebrew.

That aside, what meant you by a literal translation?

[slowlearner]

i love the story of king david, and joseph heller treats it lovingly in “oh God.”
Revelations is so bad it’s laughable. how does a christian read the entire bible and still hold to christianity?

[Jake]

@Chronos

I haven’t read it cover to cover per se, but I don’t think there’s any portion of it which I haven’t read piecemeal, so I checked off the “cover to cover” option.

Chronos, I thought you were a scientist-

[drm]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

Um… the Bible was not written in Latin. It was written in Aramaic, ancient Greek, and ancient Hebrew.

That aside, what meant you by a literal translation?

Religion hasn’t been a real focus of mine for quite some time and things slip. I do know enough that it was originally written in Aramaic (et al). But at a certain point wasn’t it translated into latin by monks and such and wasn’t it taught that way for a while?

I guess what I meant by literal is simply that in my rather limited biblical education, what I’ve noticed some versions have some of the more harsher edges removed, linguistically speaking. I’m not really referring so much to content.

I would never classify myself as a religious scholar and I’m happy to be corrected on any of this. The church I went to was United, and that’s pretty liberal. We only learned the happy bible stuff (which is why I read it, incidentally).

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

The Old testament is written mostly in Hebrew with some Aramaic. The New Trestament is written entirely in Koine Greek. St. Jerome, a 4th Century priest, translated the whole shebang into Vulgar (“common”) Latin. That Bible became known as the Vulgate, and it was the standard Church Bible for the next 1000 years or so.

[jayjay]

@Kim_o_the_Concrete_Jungle

I was always left with the impression that the story of Lot ended a the bit where his wife looked back and turned into a pillar of salt. It doesn’t. And somehow, we always managed to skip the part where Lot offers his daughters up to be raped and murdered by the mob, instead of his guests. I’m sure I would have noticed that bit.

I’ll bet they skipped the part where those same daughters tricked Lot into impregnating them because they thought they were the last people on Earth, too…