I've taken the first step to become a member of the AA. Will the 'spirituality' be a problem?

[Harriet_the_Spry]

I will venture in and hope this is helpful. I don’t have personal knowledge of AA. I am a Christian now, although I was formerly an atheist.

When I was an atheist, I studied a lot of sociobiology, which as I understood it at the time boiled down to “evolution explains everything.” However, as I reflect back on it from my new perspective, it doesn’t seem like evolution explains things all that differently than my current faith does. Really. So I am chiming in to say that evolution/ natural selection quite possibly could serve as a higher power. Whether one says that squirrels were “designed” to store nuts for the winter, or that squirrels have been fine-tuned by the laws of physics and the chemical composition of planet earth to store nuts for the winter, doesn’t make a whole lot of difference unless you are arguing about creationism. If you are actually trying to do anything with squirrels, you’ll get about the same results.

I do think that the level of certainty in your own knowledge of the lack of God’s existence, to the extent that would prompt you to stop others in their tracks and try to correct them, probably needs to go for your own mental health. Can you at least aim for the kind of agnosticism where, although you don’t believe in God, you wouldn’t take it as a personal affront if some evidence consistent with the existence of God emerged?

You might find this book interesting: Spiritual Evolution: A Scientific Defense of Faith by George Vaillant. He’s a physician who has spent a career in academic research. The book focuses on connecting the evolution of brain biology to the experience of spirituality.

I do wish you the very best in your efforts toward sobriety and hope you find the right community to support you.

[Hari_Seldon]

I can only say that I have a good friend who tried AA, but could not bear the spirituality/relgiosity of the meetings and dropped out. He is an atheist, as I am, and eventually went off to some dryout camp for a month. It worked. Also his doctor told him his liver function was poor and any more drinking would do him in. He will be 74 next month and seems pretty healthy, although he has some bowel problem (I think it is Chron’s disease) that requires him to get a colonoscopy every three months. I have no idea if that was related to his drinking. When he was drinking he would drink a fifth every two days.

[usedtobe]

I looked into AA a few years back - their 12 this and 12 that (questions, steps, whatever) were VERY clearly warmed-over Christianity. As I understood it, they have simply replaced the word “God” with “Higher Being”, but it is still a belief that god will grant you yada yada…

I ended up hospitalized, and decided to NOT check myself out and go home and resume drinking. I actually thought I was not physically addicted. Wrong.
I no longer have a craving, but there is a bottle of vodka in the fridge, and I have a drink or 2 every 4-6 months.
That crap that you can never, ever have another drink is, in my case, at least, pure bullshit. If AA is still pushing that line, that would be reason enough to ignore them.
I was given a benzodiazapine (lorazepam aka ativan) which cut craving. Ativan is a much nastier drug than usually used, but I am highly tolerant of all CNS depressants (I have 2 benzo’s and one opioid in the nightstand - I think I may have been better off sticking with the alcohol…)

Go to a meeting, see if that particular bunch suits you - and if the program is not too offensive.

[usedtobe]

I looked into AA a few years back - their 12 this and 12 that (questions, steps, whatever) were VERY clearly warmed-over Christianity. As I understood it, they have simply replaced the word “God” with “Higher Being”, but it is still a belief that god will grant you yada yada…

I ended up hospitalized, and decided to NOT check myself out and go home and resume drinking. I actually thought I was not physically addicted. Wrong.
I no longer have a craving, but there is a bottle of vodka in the fridge, and I have a drink or 2 every 4-6 months.
That crap that you can never, ever have another drink is, in my case, at least, pure bullshit. If AA is still pushing that line, that would be reason enough to ignore them.
I was given a benzodiazapine (lorazepam aka ativan) which cut craving. Ativan is a much nastier drug than usually used, but I am highly tolerant of all CNS depressants (I have 2 benzo’s and one opioid in the nightstand - I think I may have been better off sticking with the alcohol…)

Go to a meeting, see if that particular bunch suits you - and if the program is not too offensive.

[Condescending_Robot]

@hajario

The first is looking into Rational Recovery as mentioned by Alice the Goon upthread. It’s AA without the spirituality and they even make a little good natured fun of AA.

RR is NOT “AA without the spirituality.” RR is “you can choose not to drink,” “alcoholism is not a disease,” and all sorts of other unscientific platitudes that reflect the pre-modern lack of understanding about addiction, wrapped into a half-baked attempt to conflate the Establishment Clause issues inherent in court-ordered attendance at religious AA meetings with a lack of value in the AA program itself.

It doesn’t do the meetings, doesn’t incorporate any scientific or social research on addiction, and doesn’t understand what addiction is fundamentally all about. It’s Dr. Philism in action, and unless you want to continue being an alcoholic until you die from it, you should steer clear.

There are AA chapter/sponsors that do not push the religious aspect. Find one. Find a doctor who has experience treating addicts and get a recommendation for your particular needs. Don’t get sucked into the Oprah approach of thinking you can “cure” your alcoholism over the Internet. That’s what RR is.

[Czarcasm]

[Strong Moderator Suggestion]Take the AA/Rational Recovery debate to Great Debates.[/Strong Moderator Suggestion]

[NRichards]

Congrats Lobsang! Going to the first meeting is an experience for sure. My advice to newcomers is to just keep coming. Even if you don’t agree with everybody, even if you get frustrated. Even if you start drinking. Keep coming.

Something to keep in mind: As there are no rules to AA, and no guidline of topics that are approved/outlawed, you will find that the atmosphere of a meeting is highly dependant on who shows up. Think about it, if 20 very verbal religionists show up, you might be discouraged. Imagine if 20 Athiests showed up…

All I’m saying is the climate changes meeting to meeting. That’s why it’s good to try different meetings, at different times of day. Also remember, if someone says something you don’t agree with, it’s them talking. The individual. I have heard some crazy shit in AA meetings,
I’m so thankful I was able to separate the idiots who said it from the program that saved my life.

Oh, and this…

Reading through these replies I’ve started to wonder if my higher power could be evolution - that which has led to a body and brain that was not evolved to deal with addictive substances.

Can you control evolution? Nope.
Was evolution around before you? Yup.
Is evolution going to happen as it will without your intervention? Yup.
If you really believe that statement you made, then congrats my friend, you have yourself a Higher Power!

And for what it’s worth, I was in a meeting where an Athiest went into a very LOUD explanation why there was no God, complete with some pretty colorful language. What happened? Nothing really. He was allowed to talk, was thanked, and the meeting continued. Some members gave him their phone numbers and a handshake after the meeting. The rest said nothing. AA has been around for along time, something you’ll find out pretty quick is that you’re really not any different than at least one person before you. If it’s possible to shock people in an AA meeting, I’ve yet to see it.

So congrats, friend. You’ll find there are quite a few of us recovering Dopers, and many others who just want to see you happy.

Keep trudging that path to happy destiny,
NRichards

[Webner]

I have no personal experience with this, but you might want to read Roger Ebert’s blog post, My Name is Roger, and I’m an Alcoholic. Ebert is’t religious but he has great things to say about A.A. and says that reports of the religious aspect are exaggerated:

The critics never quote the words “as we understood God.” Nobody in A.A. cares how you understand him, and would never tell you how you should understand him. I went to a few meetings of “4A” (“Alcoholics and Agnostics in A.A.”), but they spent too much time talking about God. The important thing is not how you define a Higher Power. The important thing is that you don’t consider yourself to be your own Higher Power, because your own best thinking found your bottom for you.