I think the question is fairly self-explanatory, but I suppose a little background is in order… I recently had a shitload of stress pile up on me, at which point I started formulating a suicide plan. My wife knew something was up and straight-up asked me if I was planning on hurting myself. I knew I needed help so I didn’t bother trying to lie about it any longer. One month later and I’m feeling a million miles away from that kind of thinking, and I’m in a group therapy program that’s been very helpful. I’m getting out of there this week, and headed back to work, but I’m considering going to Emotions Anonymous (or a depression or grief support group) once a week to keep on that upward path for a while longer.
So my question is this: if I decide to give EA a shot (and I almost certainly will, because it can’t hurt to at least check it out), how have those of you that consider yourselves atheist or agnostic and gone through Alcoholics/Narcotics/Overeaters Anonymous found what your higher power is, and more specifically, what is it? I consider myself and agnostic atheist, in that I don’t believe there’s a god but I don’t think we can ever really know, and I know EA’s 12 steps talk about God quite a bit. I’m intelligent enough to mentally substitute the words “your higher power” for the word “God,” but I’ve only got a vague idea of what my higher power is. If I’m going to get the most out of the program, I think I owe it to myself to do some thinking about this over the next few days and weeks.
I’ve been working on this and happen to have my notes in another window. Hold on…
…To preface it, we were discussing Step Two, “Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.” In the second paragraph in Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions Bill W., the co-founder of AA, says this:
He doesn’t like us very much and understands us less, so we have to stand up for ourselves. This is what I said earlier tonight, with some over-simplified science and little “Jesus was just like us” for that specific audience:
Not me, but my brother went through AA successfully by thinking of our deceased brother as his Higher Power.
Caveat: I don’t currently suffer from depression (although I have suffered from situational depression in the past) and I’ve never had a problem with substance abuse, but…
It would seem to me that if the ‘higher power’ thing is absolutely necessary, then you might look to human-intellect, or the-march-of-progress, or the-rise-of-civilization. Or something similar. Not only have we risen out of the primordial swamp, we are, hopefully, on our way to the stars. Perhaps that could serve as some sort of ‘higher power’.
Wow, I actually found that to be touching.
You also make a solid point about how AA is actually practicing what Jesus taught.
Of course, keeping things very simple, dogma-wise, is generally more highly-correlated with the simple virtues like kindness, forgiveness, etc..
Focusing on whether or not gays can marry, whether or not working on Sunday is a sin, and other extremely fine points of doctrine probably leaves less time and energy for the simple virtues.
Food for thought, no?
And how does he answer his own question?
This…

One that kept running through my mind was using the universe as my Higher Power. As we study it the universe keeps getting weirder and more wonderful and there is even an aspect that is almost spiritual, if you look at it with the right frame of mind. Dark matter and dark energy (if they exist) surround us and pass through us like a constant breeze through an open doorway. A breeze that does not care about us at all and does not help us stay sober. Which makes it a lousy higher power but it is still wicked cool.
…reminded me of this, from uber-physicist Richard Feynmann:
Poets say science takes away from the beauty of the stars - mere globs of gas atoms. I too can see the stars on a desert night, and feel them. But do I see less or more? The vastness of the heavens stretches my imagination - stuck on this carousel my little eye can catch one-million-year-old light. A vast pattern - of which I am a part… What is the pattern, or the meaning, or the why? It does not do harm to the mystery to know a little about it. For far more marvelous is the truth than any artists of the past imagined it. Why do the poets of the present not speak of it? What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?

Wow, I actually found that to be touching.
[del] Yeah, I can shovel it on when I want to. A little Jesus, a little brown nosing, and I have them eating out of my hand. ;)[/del]
I meant to say, include a theologically-accurate Jesus comparison that can also appeal to Jews and Muslims and others who view Jesus as a philosopher if not a god, a reminder that practicing it is at the core of AA (inclusivity can sometimes be a problem, as Bill W demonstrates), and a heartfelt appreciation for what they do for me. I have to remind myself that, especially with the more conservative members, I represent ALL atheists, I need to demonstrate that we can be good people (by their standards), too, and I can’t go all Hitchensish on them. Basically, you have to know your audience and what appeals to them.

And how does he answer his own question?
We all find Jesus, er, our Higher Power eventually or go back to drinking. Read all about it here. It starts on page 25. Try to not punch your monitor.

This…reminded me of this, from uber-physicist Richard Feynmann:
I feel terribly sorry for Young Earth Creationists because our universe is so much more wondrous than theirs.

… I know EA’s 12 steps talk about God quite a bit. I’m intelligent enough to mentally substitute the words “your higher power” for the word “God,”…
Whoa! They expended no effort at all to make their twelve steps original.
BTW, it is my understanding that “God as we understood Him” was a fig leaf over AA’s inherent Judeo-Christian basis forced on Bill W. A very small fig leaf.
When I heard early on that in his final missive Dr Bob said, “Let’s not louse it all up with Freudian complexes,” I muttered to myself, “Of course he’d say that. AA is Jungian.” I’m glad I was right for a change.
How about if you picture the ‘higher power’ as how you yourself would like to be.
Someone with hono(u)r, someone who does the right thing, someone who is helpful etc. etc.
Keep the image of that man as your guiding force, and maybe, maybe you can even actually become him.

How about if you picture the ‘higher power’ as how you yourself would like to be.
Someone with hono(u)r, someone who does the right thing, someone who is helpful etc. etc.
Keep the image of that man as your guiding force, and maybe, maybe you can even actually become him.
I’m pretty sure I’d have trouble referring to someone like that as a “higher power”-it stretches the meaning of the term way beyond what Bill W. intended it to mean, as can be shown in the quote provided by dropzone above.
The immediate group and all the other members who made it work.
Of course that is not what Billy intended.
But looking at the 12 steps you can easily erase God from it and take responsibility for yourself.
Don’t ask God to take away shortcommings, but look at your shortcommings and say “Is this the man I want to be?” “No” “Then act how you would like to be”.
I heard a story of someone making their pet a higher power.
The whole thing doesn’t make sense to me. Can’t people take responsibility for their own actions?

The whole thing doesn’t make sense to me. Can’t people take responsibility for their own actions?
Yes, they can “just say no” to drugs, or alcohol, or depression, or whatever issue they’re dealing with. But evidence has shown that that approach doesn’t work very well. The people who end up in 12-step programs are there because no matter how much they might wish it, willpower doesn’t work for them. That’s why they need a higher power.
I’m not an atheist, so I won’t try to answer the OP’s question except to say that I really like what dropzone has to say.

Yes, they can “just say no” to drugs, or alcohol, or depression, or whatever issue they’re dealing with. But evidence has shown that that approach doesn’t work very well.
Is there hard evidence that shows that AA does work “very well”?
BomTek, you might want to check out Recovery International. I’ve only been to a couple of meetings several years ago and read a little bit of the literature, but I got a good impression of it. It’s a peer-led self help group (similar in that way to AA) for people with emotional or mental health issues. It was founded by Abraham Low, a psychiatrist in the '30s who decided to try to develop a system by which his patients could help themselves and one another and thereby be less reliant on him. It’s entirely secular and makes no mention of gods or higher powers (other than to say that belief in them is not incompatible with Recovery’s program). It uses Low’s techniques for developing control of one’s emotions, which are similar to the techniques of cognitive therapy and rational-emotive behavior therapy, and seems to be relatively well supported by scientific evidence (though as with AA, it’s hard to evaluate, and it looks like far less research has been done on Recovery). Other than that, it seems to have much the same roll-your-own, this-is-what-worked-for-me vibe of AA together with the same reliance on slightly anachronistic 1930s era handbooks (though case studies more than personal testimonial). Anyway, the link above goes to the Wikipedia article, so you can see what it’s about.

Yes, they can “just say no” to drugs, or alcohol, or depression, or whatever issue they’re dealing with. But evidence has shown that that approach doesn’t work very well. The people who end up in 12-step programs are there because no matter how much they might wish it, willpower doesn’t work for them. That’s why they need a higher power.
I’m not an atheist, so I won’t try to answer the OP’s question except to say that I really like what dropzone has to say.
They NEED it??
Then the higher power would be their addiction. It’s an eternal battle.
BTW, the Recovery website (lowselfhelpsystems.org) has an interesting page comparing its meeting with 12-step meetings, including the “higher power” thing. It also makes the point that they are compatible and you can do both.

I’m pretty sure I’d have trouble referring to someone like that as a “higher power”-it stretches the meaning of the term way beyond what Bill W. intended it to mean, as can be shown in the quote provided by dropzone above.
Fuck Bill W. He’s dead.

The whole thing doesn’t make sense to me. Can’t people take responsibility for their own actions?
Read their literature. You have on the one hand being told to hand your problems over to God so he can solve them (“ABC Finance? Talk to Jesus. He’s got last month’s payment.”), but on the other hand it’s all about personal responsibility.
I am worried that my club does not do enough to appeal to the younger set because the club is run by people who still wear fedoras and overcoats non-ironically and who find it nauseating that we “young” people (I’m 58) welcome newbies who took drugs along with their drinking or even ones who just took drugs. I mean, after I read the Twelve Traditions at a meeting, making the bolded changes,
[QUOTE=The Twelve Traditions]
3. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking and drugging.
- Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we
need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and
films and TV and the internet.
[/quote]
the next time someone printed them out they added “Please do not edit” at the top. While I was sure that they didn’t mean me because I did not edit, I appended, further research showed (can’t find the link) that at a recent AA convention it was confirmed that The Twelve Traditions are holy writ handed down by Bill W himself (only a slight exaggeration) and cannot be changed in any way. Which is bullshit, but alkies hate change.
Anyway, I’m thinking of turning on my Father drop personality, setting the time machine for 1970, and showing the club how a Rap Session really operates. Which doesn’t mean we rush through the Thought for the Day and the Daily Reflections if there is some meat for discussion in them, drone on* through the same readings every meeting (I may quit just because of boredom), then take a single lap of the table where everybody gives their comments. We need the give and take of discussion, a place where questions can be answered, even if there are a dozen answers. The present arrangement is like clockwork, sometimes with even a one-hour time limit, even though we own the freaking building. That’s fucked up. We should take as long or short as is needed to help everybody at the table.
-
- After a young lady in a minidress that went up to ye (she’ll fit into 1970 real well) ran through How It Works in record time a girlfriend whispered, “I like her.” I whispered back, “I like her, too,” but knew better than to add that, for me, it wasn’t because she’s a fast reader.