Makes me wonder if the Wachowski sisters will make less money for Matrix 4, now that they are women, than they did on the first 3 movies in the series, with the gender pay gap and all.
Well, I think it safe to say a Matrix 4 would make less money no matter what, since the last one was horrible, movie theatres are in decline, and, let’s be honest, the franchise is a bit past its best-before date. There’s really no way to ascertain what impact them now being billed the Wachowski sisters would make… but, honestly, do most filmgoers care who the producers or directors of a movie are? Except maybe for Spielberg? No one knew who the Wachowskis were when the first one came out, and it made a grillion dollars.
It’s off topic, but “The Matrix” is one of the most remarkable examples of filmmakers making one great film amidst a lot of second rate garbage; “Star Wars” and “The Sixth Sense” would be other leading candidates. (George Lucas actually had little to do with “The Empire Strikes Back,” before anyone says anything. That would be an interesting Cafe Society thread, I might have to start that.
In regards to directors, I think so, yes. About on par with how much they care about who the stars are.
Makes me wonder if the Wachowski sisters will make less money for Matrix 4, now that they are women, than they did on the first 3 movies in the series, with the gender pay gap and all.
What RickJay said. But I have read articles saying transwomen found that their careers stalled after transition, while transmen said theirs took off.
How about women in prison who are worried that male criminals can identify as women and be moved into women’s jails? It’s easy to say trans people must be treated as the sex they identify with, without any conditions being placed on them, but in practice that can be unfair to other people.
Who said it would be easy? The easy way is to say “Eff those trans people” and tell the transwomen who have been living as women for years that they’re going to the men’s prison, and best of luck to them, cuz they’re sure gonna need it. Is that the “fair” choice? Perhaps it’s possible to stop men from gaming the system, I’d rather try that than default back to denying trans people dignity.
Contrast this with athletics, where there’s hardly any way to get around the fact that physical development influenced by a Y chromosome is different than development without. If we want people without Y chromosomes to participate in athletics, they need a Y chromosome free space to do so.
If in a list of movies directed by women was published, how typical would it be for a movie like the Matrix to be in that list? Are sci-fi action movies typical for women directors? I would say no. When I look at lists of movies directed by women, most of them seem more about relationships or examining the human condition. There’s not too much in the way of sci-fi or action movies. The above link lists “The Matrix”, but it’s the only movie shown that would be in that category. So even though someone may identify as a woman, it doesn’t seem that they would necessarily create movies typically made by women. Certainly a woman can make any movie she wants, but there are likely going to be genres which are going to have gender-specific preferences. One gender may prefer to make movies which examine the complex relationship between a mother and daughter, while another gender may prefer to make movies with big explosions.
More likely producers aren’t willing to entertain hiring female directors to direct sci-fi action films.
Powers &8^]
Maybe, but it also seems that consumers of sci-fi and action movies trend more towards men than women. And that consumers of emotional movies trend more towards women. I can realistically consider that women directors were locked out of certain genres by the producers, but that doesn’t explain why consumers would have gender differences for movie genres. I would tend to think that men direct more sci-fi and action movies because men generally like that genre and want to make movies in that genre, and likewise for women liking emotional movies and wanting to make movies in that genre.
The two issues reinforce themselves, so it’s not an either/or.
I mean, consider the subject of this thread: JK Rowling. How many women have attained her level of success in a fantasy genre? She is a rarity not because women aren’t interested in fantasy (the genre has a ton of female fans) and not because women can’t write (we know that they can). It certainly has something to do with institutional and social barriers and pressures that selectively work against women who aspire to write in this genre.
JK Rowling worked under a gender-neutralized name because her publisher told her boys wouldn’t read a book by a female author.. Given this, I don’t think it was an accident Harry Potter was a boy rather than a girl.
When this plays out and over again, it shouldn’t be surprising that there a few female directors and novelists. When kids start forming their career aspirations, they get inspiration from people they see as being like them. Their interests are also going to be shaped by whether they see themselves in the characters presented.
Women like all kinds of movies. It’s men who tend to stay away from certain genres. It has been my experience that women will watch an action movie without any hesitation, especially if it has a good storyline. Women devour science fiction too.
The issue is that women in top creative positions (writers, directors, etc.) desire to create works that aren’t centered around the male POV. Women will consume things centered around the male POV because we’ve been listening to stories from the male POV since forever. But men tend to eschew things centered around the female POV because they have the luxury of opting out of that experience. And no one will judge them for it because avoiding a “chick flick” is socially acceptable. If it isn’t so socially acceptable to not watch action movies, especially in this day and age of the ubiquitous super hero, unless you just want to look like a square.
I’m reminded of Octavia Butler, the legendary science fiction writer who just happened to be a black woman (and a lesbian). I possess a paperback copy of “Dawn”. It features a white woman on the cover. The white woman is supposed to be Lilith, the protagonist of the story. Lilith is a black woman. Why was this cover art chosen? People are more likely to read a book if they think it’s about a white woman than a black woman. The “white-facing” also masked Ms. Butler’s black identity. Additionally, the art shows Lilith lifting the covers off of a sleeping naked white woman. The artist could have recreated any scene in that book. Why the fuck did they go with THAT one?! Well, we know why they didn’t.
I’m sure Octavia hated that the publisher made these choices for the cover art, but those choices probably helped launch her career.
I’m sure lots of people think black folks don’t read or produce science fiction, but they couldn’t be any more incorrect.
I’d say quite a few (unless you mean her monetary success, which - no man really has, either). I’d argue that fantasy is one of the least biased genres against female authors, and many of the greats of the genre have been women. No man has won 3 successive Hugos, for one thing.
Agreed. I’ve a question for those who baulk at the notion of ‘gatekeeping’; if a (very guilty) man, arrested for a violent crime, tells police he’s a woman in order to serve his sentence in a safer prison, by what logic would you keep him out?
It may be one of the least biased, but that’s damning with faint praise. It’s still biased as hell.
“Point Break” was an action movie. That list also does not include “Wonder Woman,” directed by Patty Jenkins, which was a godo movie and made a ton of money.
Women just haven’t gotten the same opportunities as men. It might be because they prefer to direct dramas and character studies, but the thing is, action and sci-fi spectaculars are EXPENSIVE. You can make a movie like “Lady Bird” for less than the costume budget of a Marvel movie. If women have to scratch and claw to get directing opportunities, their first opportunities are going to be cheaply made films.
I 100% disagree with Ellis Dee’s claim that filmgoers care about directors. They don’t. Film BUFFS absolutely do, but the great majority of theatregoers do not know who the director is of the movie they’re watching. My wife is an intelligent, educated woman, and likes movies, and if it wasn’t directed by Spielberg she doesn’t know who directed it, and doesn’t care. Kids don’t care. Most people don’t. Who directed “Avengers: Endgame”? 95% of all fans who watched that film couldn’t tell you. It could have been a woman; they wouldn’t know. I bet most people in this thread could not say who directed “Ant-Man” without looking it up.
Women do not get the same opportunities as men. Had the Wachowskis been born sisters I’d say it’s likely we’d never have heard of them.
How about we do this again without the false assumptions? I don’t believe transwomen should automatically be put in the men’s prison. I think some combination of separate prisons/wings for transmen and transwomen, and gatekeeping based on medical diagnosis/degree of transition/type of crime would be the best solution.
What I am worried about happening is that only the safety and feelings of transwomen are considered, while the safety and feelings of other female prisoners are ignored. (And transmen never seem to be talked about either. Surely putting a transman who hasn’t medically transitioned in a men’s prison would be extremely dangerous for him?)
And I am also worried that, like @Danny_Hammer said, the logic of the trans rights movement, if implemented as they demand, would make it impossible to prevent male criminals declaring themselves trans in order to serve their sentences in women’s prisons.
You say there should be a way to stop men gaming the system, and that we need to keep female athletics for those without a Y chromosome. I agree with both of those things. But the ACLU is currently fighting to allow transwomen to take part in women’s athletics (without any hormonal restrictions, even) because it is their human right as women. Seems to me that if we allow no differentiation in law between transwomen and natal women, and no gatekeeping on who is trans, then we can’t avoid these situations.
I’m not seeing this acknowledged either.
Declaring that transwomen are women and thus it is bigoted to not treat them as such is valid rhetoric if you’re truly committed to seeing this through to the final destination.
But the true test of this commitment is prisons. If you can see the risk in taking a violent felon at his word when deciding which prison to stick him in, then to be logically consistent, you have to accept there are similar risks in taking a Peeping Tom or pedophile at his word when deciding which restroom or locker room he can use. You have to accept that 1) there is some population of men that will call themselves trans to game the system and 2) this gaming will occur at the expense of women.
@Cheesesteak, if you can see that athletes with Y chromosomes don’t belong in sports with females, I honestly don’t see why you’re arguing these same athletes are entitled to use women’s restrooms and locker rooms. The same reason we segregate sports by sex applies to spaces that address issues related to the body. Males and females have different needs in that department. Females have a need for toilets that males don’t, at least to the same extent.
Did I say it wasn’t? All social endeavour is. But successful women fantasy writers are not a rare commodity.
Your post is very thoughtful and I agree with the vast majority of it. Those who want a functioning society with acceptance of those who are outside the binary do not have to give the trans rights movement or the ACLU everything they want.