If we tell women who are leery of men that they are so “prejudiced and paranoid”, then why are we only perpetuating their prejudice and paranoia by keeping up with the theater of the “women’s restroom”. Why not call it a unisex restroom and just be done with it? The lack of logical consistency is what is driving me nuts. It’s no different than yelling at white people for being prejudiced against black people while staying committed to ‘whites-only’ spaces.
I have no problems with unisex facilities as long as they have ample privacy. But I don’t like useless theater. If males are allowed unrestricted access to women’s restrooms, let’s stop with the “women’s” business because it creates a false expectation and thus false sense of security. Let’s be honest and say we’re going to dismantle protective spaces reserved for women. And let’s drop the bullshit belief that this is all logically consistent with feminism and women’s rights.
If folks were more honest about what they are advancing, then maybe they would be able to see how damaging their rhetoric is and stop themselves.
Because once you commit to treating gender affirmation as a human right, you have to see that through no matter what. Even if it means other rights are curtailed. And even if makes no sense to treat that as a right to begin with.
Well, this is not a surprise position- YWTF and others have stated this at least as clearly multiple times.
Which is why so much of this “debate” has felt like a waste of time. If you don’t think that trans women are women and trans men are men, then of course it makes sense to think about trans men and women in their respective gendered bathrooms as an infringement or an accommodation, as opposed to an imperative.
If you truly believe that trans women are women and trans men are men, then that position looks no morally different than excluding left-handed women from women’s bathrooms, and men below 5’8" from men’s bathrooms.
It’s not hateful. It’s true. Transwomen are not actual women.
You can say all you want “Transwomen are women” but they’re not, unless you are shrugging your shoulders and decided the word “woman” doesn’t mean anything. It’s also, obviously, a dishonest debating position; you’re not saying that out of any logical thought process, you’re saying it to try to force people to not express their opinion, because then you won’t have to support your claims.
I really don’t think most people who repeat the slogan “Trans women are women” believe it. Ask any of the beardbros who repeat this mantra how many transwomen they’ve slept with.
I am a woman, I am also transgender, so yes, transgender women are women. Despite all the hatred, bigotry, and paranoia on this topic from you and your allies, it doesn’t change what is true. I use women’s restrooms and women’s only areas for the same reason cisgender women do with no problems, even though I still have a penis (and no, I don’t think it’s necessary to have GRS or other surgeries, we are all on our own paths). I look and feel like a woman, I am considered a woman by the medical and psychiatric communities and by our government and by everyone I come across in day to day life, and the only way you would know I wasn’t born female would be if you forced me to drop my underwear and inspected me like some kind of prisoner. I am a woman, regardless of what the bigots here say.
Kudos to you and those who refuse to admit that gay marriages are actually marriage, for bravely standing in front of the locomotive of evolving language and shouting “STOP”!
Whether you consider yourself a woman or not, it is honestly not any skin off my teeth.
But I need you to understand that what is in bold is why I can’t shrug off the implications of having TWAW codified in the law. I interpret “we are all on our own paths” as another way of saying “we are entitled to have our gender identity affirmed without exception or question”.
But gay marriages ARE marriages. Those are not analogous. I realize it would be very convenient to your position if they were analogous, but they are not.
If it’s “bullying” for @Boudicca90 to tell her story and insist she is a woman, then it’s “bullying” for a gay couple to tell their story and insist they are married. Language changes, and for these examples, language has already changed (for at least one definition). Suck it up and deal with it. That doesn’t invalidate any of the concerns about the treatment of women (and ciswomen in particular), of course. But language changes, and whining about it is like whining about the changing of the seasons.
“Marriage” actually has a legal definition and requirements. Two random people who say they are married one day aren’t married in the eyes of the law. If we are going to compare marriage to trans, then there should be a legal definition of what it means to be trans. If some random person exclaims “I’m trans”, they shouldn’t necessarily be granted all legal rights from that alone anymore than two people who claim “We’re married” should be viewed as legally married.
And sports? If you truly believe that trans women are women, is excluding them from women’s sports no different from excluding left-handed women? The ACLU think so. It’s the logical consequence of your position.
Language changes, but reality does not. Gay people were married before it was recognized as such, either by government or society. Two people, living together, vowing to love and protect each other, acting as life partners. That’s a marriage. Without broader societal acceptance, it’s a marriage missing some of the rights and privileges that marriages generally get, and so it was important to fight for those. But simply using the name didn’t change the underlying reality.
This is different. There is an underlying female biological reality which isn’t shared by transwomen. I personally have no problem saying “transwomen are women” in most ordinary social circumstances, but that doesn’t change the fact that biological females have needs different from biological males and that much of feminism is centered around these needs and not some fuzzy, abstract notion of womanhood. In this respect, transwomen are not women.