I’d like to point out once again that this is not why JKR has been so highly criticized. It’s because of the specific language she used (that horse has been beaten dozens of times in this thread). I wouldn’t care at all if all she said was “sex is a thing that exists”.
I know it’s frustrating to others when their positions are straw-manned… it’s frustrating to me as well.
I absolutely am not straw manning anything. I said her initial “offense” was in saying sex is a thing that exists, and that is what happened. This all started on June 6, 2020, when Rowling complained about the “people who menstruate” article, and then she wrote, on the same day, “If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth.”
It was later than she wrote the long essay detailing other concerns. But the hate and vitriol thrown her way started with her tweets on June 6 insisting sex is real. That is what I obviously meant by “initial offense.” That’s what “initial” means.
Which wouldn’t be so bad if there wasn’t a campaign to paint transwomen as the ones being oppressed the second anyone looks at the equation and says wait a minute, the math isn’t adding up. They get two scoops while others get only one?
@SpiceWeasel didn’t engage this point when I made it to her, so I’m going to restate it. Imagine if an activist group had targeted an LGBT youth shelter, campaigned hard to defund it, and then unleashed a disgusting torrent of vandalism, slander, and harassment against it.
No progressive would think to say anything like “The attacks on the shelter are vile. That doesn’t mean their exclusion of cis-heterosexual adults is a good thing”. Because we would all understand that this is false equivalency that is beyond offensive. It’s right up there with Trump’s “good people on both sides”. We would understand that a shelter for LGBT youth is objectively a good thing for a population that is likely dealing with trauma. If such a shelter excludes cis-hets, we’d understand this is so they can focus their resources on an at-risk group. It would never occur to us to demonize this shelter or even wag a finger at it in the same breath when talking about it being viciously attacked.
But a women’s only rape shelter is not held in the same regard by trans ally ship. It’s a clear sign we’ve lost the plot here and a course correction is about 5 years overdue.
That’s still very different than saying “sex is a thing that exists”. Her tweet about “people who menstruate” was very different, and was rightly criticized (not the threats, but the criticism).
Her “initial offense” was that dumb, obnoxious tweet. That’s what started the criticism.
JKR’s initial tweet was a ridiculing of an article that used inclusive language. Then she shifted to saying “sex is real”, as if the reason she was criticized for that initial tweet was because she was saying “sex is a real thing”. Which is false. That’s not why she was criticized, for the most part. She was criticized for mocking attempts at using inclusive language, and implicitly rhetorically erasing so many people (trans men, older women, women who don’t menstruate, etc.), with her dumb, thoughtless, and flippantly obnoxious tweet. IMO. I wouldn’t care at all if all she said was “sex is a real thing that exists”.
You aren’t representative of the people throwing hate at her. Ever since she said “sex is real”, she’s been the prime target of the woke police. Her subsequent remarks have only made them hate her more.
I’ve seen plenty of the criticism against her. The vast majority is not about the concept that “sex is a real thing that exists”.
But how could this be proven? I’m not about to go find hundreds or thousands of tweets… and even if I did, that wouldn’t prove a thing. You think one thing, I think another. I speak to lots of trans activists and allies, and I’m convinced that it’s mostly not about “sex is real”. I get that you feel differently, but your certainty isn’t going to be any more convincing to me than mine is to you.
People were shrieking so loudly and shrilly over her “sex is real” remark that I’m having a hard time seeing their outrage over her essay as anything but more pathological unhingedness. People are acting like she’s out here eating trans babies for breakfast. They have more hate for her than they do all these men we’re supposed to believe are out here killing transwomen in men’s restrooms. It’s insane.
You didn’t even know that Biden was pushing for gender affirmation in Title IX sports, @iiandyiiii. How informed on this issue can you really be if you’re learning this a only few weeks before the election?
You need to be on Twitter if you want to know what TRAs are really saying and doing. Your current sources of information have failed you badly, so you’re impressing no one by appealing to them.
What’s the point in arguing about this when I see this differently, but you’re so certain that I’m wrong? I get it. There’s no point in discussing it. At this point you probably think I’m ignorant, stupid, or a liar, but I’m not going to try and change your mind here. It’s a waste of time. I’m sorry you probably see me this way. I really do see this, and the other things, differently. Different interpretations of words and facts are indeed possible.
I am on twitter, and many other social media sites. Twitter is immense. I have little doubt there are huge swaths I haven’t seen, and likely there are huge swaths you haven’t seen either.
What’s the point here, too? You really expect me to believe that you have a perfect sense of the millions upon millions of tweets out there? I disagree. Let’s leave it at that.
Some people, perhaps. Not nearly all. Apparently I think the ratio is different than you, but I’m not sure how we’re going to hash out who’s right on the crazy vs non crazy criticism ratio against JKR.
Just want to say, as someone who works in the nonprofit industry, in the vast majority of geological locales, domestic violence and sexual assault shelters that cater exclusively to transfolk are not going to happen any more than shelters that cater exclusively to men are going to happen. In order to create any kind of human services organization you have to first establish a significant community need. Transwomen make up such a tiny percentage of the population it’s unlikely such need will be established. It’s already quite a challenge for most transwomen to find a safe place to stay. As I mentioned before, even LGBTQ shelters are hard to find. Transfolk have even fewer alternatives than ciswomen.
In part because of this, I do not believe excluding transwomen from women’s - only spaces is a good thing. I think it’s a bad thing. But I now have a deeper understanding of the TERF position than I ever did before, and I don’t think it’s as bonkers as I did before coming into this thread. I don’t agree, but I understand the concern better.
ETA: Our shelter serves about 3 trans people a year out of 430. Just to put some real numbers on what the need actually looks like. No organization can be built upon serving 3 people a year.
For real! And I get that many TW are victimized and brutalized however how many of these victims are mainstream citizens leading productive lives and how many are leading lives on the fringe s of society where they are at a greater risk of violence?
Because this is not a matter of opinion, bruh. Facts are facts. If your denials were based in truth, no one’s jobs would be threatened for the crime of saying only females have cervixes. JKR wouldn’t be getting attacked to the extent she is either, because her comments wouldn’t be perceived as such a existential threat to the trans movement.
Indeed. And your understanding of these facts is different than mine.
Let me once again remind you that didn’t even know what Biden has on his platform.
There’s having different understanding of facts…and there is abject ignorance and psychological denial.
What you’re saying about me here is false. Our understanding of that platform appears to differ.
But feel free to accuse me of ignorance, denial, and whatever else you like, if that makes you feel better.
I’m probably done responding to you in this thread, @YWTF. I’ve admired you as a poster for a long time, but there’s not much point in responding to the kind of posts that make such negative assumptions about me personally.
What a way to blame the victim. Transwomen are often forced to live on the fringes of society because of their marginalization and victimization by bigots. The idea that they deserve to be victimized further is just offensive.
I asked you to explain how and you never did. Can you please do so?
Pretend I’m a moderate who still doubts whether Biden is better than Trump. I’ve read that Biden intends to allow males who identify as girls to compete in girl sports, and this worries me as the mother of two daughters who aspire to be track and field stars.
What facts will you give to me to assuage my concerns? Mind you, I’ve seen what’s on his website.