…I don’t believe I am. How does your behaviour in this thread not fit that definition? Can you explain why you think I’m being extremely misguided?
I’m gonna say something that folks may not be expecting me to say.
I do think announcing that you would never date a transperson is something. I wouldn’t call it necessarily transphobic, but I would say it is unkind and not courteous. I am not in the dating game, but I wouldn’t want to hear a white person proclaim that they would never date a black woman. They could have a hundred BLM tattoos all over their body, and it wouldn’t matter. I would still feel some kind of way about them singling out my group like we’re the worst thing in the world.
However, I do that is different than a lesbian proudly pronouncing that she’s only about the pussy. If straight women are allowed to gush over big ole dicks, lesbians should be able to profess their love for the vag and not be shamed over it. It’s great that pansexuals can love anyone and anything. But most folks are not like this. The sex organs they expect to see during sexy times are not negotiable for them, and this needs to always be respected.
So yeah, if a lesbian is out here–apropos of nothing–talking about how she has no love for transwomen, I don’t have a problem with transwomen reacting negatively to that and going there with “transphobe” if they find it necessary (just like I want to snatch the “woman” card from a transwoman when I find it necessary). But if the only thing a lesbian has done is say she don’t want no dick after someone with a dick keeps pushing up on her, I say she is reacting just like you’d expect a woman to react to any other sexually aggro male. She’s going for the balls. That should always be fair game, IMHO.
Let’s start here.
Summer is here, which means every other queer girl is finally hopping off Twitter and grabbing some sun. And what better way to enjoy the weather than going on a beach date? Higher temperatures are encouraging us all to be slutty, so whether you’re single, nonmonogamous, poly, or something in between, it’s the perfect time to swap numbers and grab drinks with that dyke that you’ve been bashfully checking out at the feminist bookstore.
This writing has a distinctively heterosexual male “I’m acting like I imagine hot babes are supposed to act, teehee!” quality to it. Probably has something to do with the parts in bold, probably.
That’s why I’m here today: to help you unlearn our society’s nasty transphobia and teach you how to have fun with the trans women in your love life.
In other words, let me emotionally coerce you into accepting this cock by evoking bigotry in the context of lesbian sex.
Women in general are not socialized to seek partners who would ever need to be “educated” into having sex with them. I would rather have no sex than sex with someone who requires any amount of coaxing; rare is the woman who is any different than me. This whole article reads like an unsolicited mansplanation.
Corrective rape is a thing. I can’t help but think of that with the author’s disturbing use of “unlearn”. The entitlement behind this phrasing screams misogynistic male socialization, not female.
I dunno saying you’d proudly wear a shirt that says “Fuck your pronouns” doesn’t seem like something a trans-friendly person would do, but it does seem like something someone who enjoys being hostile to transgender strangers might do.
Probably just me though.
No, when someone calls another person a transphobe, they pretty much always mean “You hate and discriminate against trans people.” Whether that charge is accurate is irrelevant to the specific point I was making there. Stipulate that it’s almost always inaccurate, if you want. That doesn’t change the intent behind what’s being said, which is what I was getting at.
I wouldn’t wear a shirt like this. I wouldn’t wear any of the shirts we’re talking about, for that matter.
But if someone asked me to declare my pronouns, I’m not cooperating and I don’t care if someone assumes I’m transphobic. I don’t make a show of my atheism, I don’t advertise my race, and I don’t even mention my age to people outside a need to know.
Except when monstro accuses them of trying to cram their “girl dicks” down her throat- like she said in post 4486. But I’m sure she meant it kindly.
That is not the case. I have provided examples to the contrary. That accusation is not always made in good faith, or made using thee definition of “transphobe” you are using.
Did you refer to the links I provided?
I have no real problem with a lesbian just not wanting to date a transwoman who still has a penis. I would not call her a transphobe.
I do have a problem with a lesbian saying that any other lesbian who does date a transwoman with a penis is not a real lesbian. And also saying a transwoman who likes women is not a real lesbian. Those, to me, are both transphobes.
I’ve been reading the stories of ‘trans-widows’. They are all very similar and very disturbing. I can’t even describe them, it’s impossible to relate these women’s lives without being accused of transphobia.
So by your definition above you, and pretty much every else in the thread could be counted as transphobic as well…correct?
After all, there seems to be a general agreement that some form of gatekeeping is required in such as sports, prisons etc. A form of gatekeeping for trans people that isn’t requiredf for anyone else.
What is that if not discrimination, what is that if not transphobia? (by your definition above) I assume you are happy to wear that label,
…there is a lot of both casual and blatant transphobia in this thread.
I hold a position the position that there should be gatekeeping for people that pretend to be transgender, not transgender people. That distinction seems to be lost on you. But what do you think? Am I transphobic? A simple yes or no without the normal rhetoric would suffice.
Does that mean if Karen White is shown to be sincerely transgender, you think they should move her back to the women’s jail?
And by what authority do you dare to proclaim that someone is not the gender they claim to be? Transpohobe!
By the strict rules of the definition you gave above and your own freely given opinion, Yes. Sorry. But then so is pretty much everyone else in this thread.
…perhaps. Maybe in permanent isolation from the other woman prisoners. However the safety of the other prisoners has to come first.
We’ve already had this discussion at length. I’m not particularly keen to revisit it again. I’m well aware of the gotcha game you both are playing here. If you think my position is transphobic then you are welcome to call me whatever the fuck you like. But I’ll stand by my positions in this thread and the two About This Message Board threads I started over transgender issues.
You don’t appear to have read the “rules of definition” I cited, so you aren’t in any position to judge.
My own freely given opinion isn’t transphobic by any standards presented by Planned Parenthood.
You aren’t sorry.
There are a number of people who have regularly cited transphobic publications, that repeat transphobic rhetoric, that casually and unapologetically misgender people, that use a mere handful of cases to belittle and laugh, and to blatantly fearmonger about transgender people. And those people have been posting in this thread every single day for months now. That behaviour is allowed on these boards. That behaviour is accepted here, and I will abide by the decisions made by the moderating team. But that behaviour also has a name. So I think its time to start calling it what it is.
I don’t think you’re transphobic, BB. I think the term has strayed a long long way from Miller’s “people who deny employment to trans people, who refuse to cater to them in public establishments, and who physically attack them” to include anyone who disagrees with ‘gender ideology’ and/or wants to defend women’s rights. And that’s a problem.
But you fundamentally miss the point. It isn’t my “gotcha” game. It is the game played by those seeking to expand the definition to the point where it actually does include people like you, who, by any reasonable interpretation of the word is not a transphobe.
By making it mean anything it means nothing and so why not make fun of the term?
It talks of discrimination against transgender people. Any gatekeeping you agree with necessarily discriminates against transgender people. Even thinking you need to judge if they are serious or not can be said to be discriminatory, why are you not simply accepting their own opinion as fact?
…nope. It was a gotcha game. And you’ve added a strawman just for good measure. I’m glad you agree that by any reasonable measure I’m not a transphobe. So can we just stop the game playing now?
But it doesn’t mean “anything.”
The definition doesn’t say anything at all about gatekeeping. Gatekeeping is your word and I’ve happily adopted it for the purposes of conceding I understand your underlying point. But if you are going to use it simply to win a rhetorical victory then I see no reason to play along with your game. My position is much more nuanced than what you would describe as “gatekeeping.” And its that nuance that you miss.
Here’s the difference between me and you.
You want a debate.
I just want the transphobia to stop.
I’m really too tired to argue with you. This thread has exhausted trans allies and it has driven transgender people away. And this thread is a bright, shining beacon that the Straight Dope is not a safe place for transgender people.
I hope you are proud of that. What a great legacy.
By the rules established by the ideology of self-ID, one can simply call themselves non-transphobic and thus it is so.
Definitions can be changed at any time, by anyone who self-determines they’d rather be something else. If males can identify as females and enjoy immunity from challenge, certainly bigots can identity as saintly egalitarians and expect no push back.
One would think this would already be understood by people who have studied their own beliefs. No dictionary definitions matter as long as you can argue with a straight face that men have the right to be women just by declaring themselves women.
Do you want to stop people denying employment to trans people, refusing to cater to them in public establishments, and physically attacking them? Or do you want to enforce assent to a quasi-religious view, block research into treating children with gender dysphoria, and silence women?
Cause if it’s the first, I’m on your side. Let’s fight it together. But if it’s the second then make no mistake; you are the bad guy and I’ll be fighting against you every step of the way.