Which is presumptuous as fuck. Do I even to explain why? The article is trying to sell a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. No lesbian is asking for a transwoman to diagram all the ways to please penises in bed. If you doubt me, read Serrano’s article. She says it herself: the overwhelmingly majority ain’t interested. The only market for this article are people like me who are looking at it and going WTF?
If you think a dating article is just the right vehicle for “unlearning” anything that leads to suicide, I really don’t know what to tell you. Except that this is beyond wrong.
I would like someone to explain to me how lesbian exclusion of transwomen is materially different than lesbian exclusion of any males. If they are transphobic for finding trans women’s penises viscerally unattractive, then are they misandrist for feeling the same way toward’s men? What about non-binary males?
If the queer community is denying lesbians the right to enjoy a vagina-only lover policy without harassment and interrogation, then you cannot be surprised “Get the L out of LGBT” and “Lesbian not queer” are slogans that are taking off. This is a basic case of cause and effect. Lesbians are not trying to be oppressed by the very people that should have their back. If they have the power walk away and form their own club, they will gladly do that. Surely y’all know this, right? I don’t understand what your end game is with this “nasty transphobia” bent but it has divide and conquer written all over it.
Generally, it’s considered ethical to disclose your trans status to a potential partner before you start having sex. There’s a lot of disagreement about how early this information should be introduced in a relationship, but almost all trans people agree that you should do it before you start getting naked with each other. This is entirely irrespective of what sort of genitals you’re sporting at the moment.
But that article is about transwomen. You know, the group born with genitalia that lesbians aren’t interested in eating and have always been adamant about not eating.
I agree an article about transmen might be more a lesbian’s speed. But something tells me even that is unnecessary. People don’t need how-to guides for sex when they can simply talk to the person they are interested in.
Why would a transmen be in a relationship with a lesbian ciswoman if he doesn’t want anyone playing his pussy? Why are you even bringing this up?
I’m not assuming that Serrano was attacking lesbians for raping transmen. She’s attacking them for being attracted to them but not to her.
At any rate, it’s curious that you seem comfortable saying something like “Trans guys aren’t really cool with people playing with their pussy” right after talking about the Allure article that @YWTF linked to. The article makes it clear that some transwomen feel uncomfortable involving their penis in sex, but then goes on to talk about all the ways transwomen use their penis in sex. Do you think that transmen and transwomen relate differently to their genitalia?
Uh… you know bisexual woman are a thing, right? Bisexual women - whom “even Serrano” found better success with - still can use this sort of advice. And, of course, Serrano’s article was written five years ago, and was based on her experiences in the years prior to that. The Allure article was written in 2019. As everyone has notices, trans acceptance has advanced exponentially in the last half decade. So the distinction maybe be due to that. Or the Allure writer lives in an area where the lesbian population is more open to the concept of dating trans women. Or she’s got better game. Or better tits. Or who knows? None of this has anything to do with your absolutely ridiculous comparison of this article to “corrective rape”
I think most “-isms” and “-phobias” are big, multifaceted things that can be combated in a number of ways. Considering that a lot of trans people’s self harm is tied up in their rejection by society (not just romantically, but also that) more media that takes as granted that trans people can be attractive and lovable can only help.
What about trans women without penises?
They aren’t.
They also aren’t.
Also not happening.
But they aren’t.
I have no idea what counter-factual, conspiracy tinged nonsense you’re going to spout at any given moment, but it’s fascinating to find out!
Dayaaaaam, that’s a good one! Did not see that coming.
Who exactly am I “dividing and conquering” here, straight lady who keeps trying to invent a narrative that lesbians are somehow at odds with the LGBT movement?
It’s Incel logic, right on down to the charge of hypocrisy. Rather than appreciating the fact that transmen have something they don’t (female primary sex characteristics) that is of value to their love interests, they blame it on women’s flawed character.
It is disturbing to so many familiar red flags in this article, and see it being defended like it’s a perfectly reasonable posture to be putting out there in the world.
It sounds a lot like a stereotypical response when a straight guy is rejected by a ciswoman and he says it was because she was a lesbian. The transwoman version is to say that she’s a transphobe. Is this just a characteristic of genetically XY people? Are there any similar articles from transmen lamenting that gay men don’t want to date them?
Why do people stay in abusive relationships in general? Dating for trans people is really, really hard, and a lot of them settle for partners that are really not healthy for them, because the only other option is being alone.
And I’m bringing it up because you brought it up - you suggested that lesbians dating trans men suggests that they aren’t transphobic. From what I’ve personally observered, and from listening to people with more direct experience than me, this isn’t the case. A lot of lesbians enter relationships with trans men specifically because of their transphobic ideas - specifically, they don’t accept that the person they’re sleeping with is a man.
How did we get to rape?
I’m not sure I understand your confusion. My understanding about how trans men relate to their genitals comes from dating them, and paying attention to them when they talk about themselves. My understanding about how trans women relate to theirs comes from the same. My experience is that it’s pretty individualistic, and depends on a lot of factors, including their general overall body dysmorphia, their current level of dysmorphia, the degree to which they trust their partner, and a number of other things. A lot of time, it specific, arbitrary stuff: rubbing is okay, but no penetration. Fingers are okay, but not tongues. Some guys are okay with penetration, but only if its anal. Other guys are strictly tops, and want you to act like their strap-on is a flesh-and-blood penis. A lot of trans women will specifically not take the penetrative role during sex. Some are okay with receiving oral, some aren’t. I knew (not intimately) one lady who would be willing to offer a boyfriend essentially endless blowjobs if they were okay with never seeing her naked - she had an exceptionally high level of body dysmorphia.
The basic thing I’m saying is, just because a trans person has a particular set of genitals, it’s a mistake to assume that they’re open to the standard range of activities that particular type of genitalia normally implies.
It’s Incel logic, right on down to the charge of hypocrisy.
It is worse.
When Incels blame women and society for their sexual frustration, everyone tells them to STFU. Even the most kind and courteous people do this. People feel free to tell those jerks that they need to look inward and take responsibility for their lack of success. The more compassionate recommend they get therapy and stop thinking so much about relationships, because bad luck happens to everyone blahblahblah. People might blame society for why Incels are so violent and rageful. But no one agrees with Incels that women are way too picky.
For some reason, the sexual frustrated transwoman is being treated differently than the sexually frustrated young man. My guess is it’s because we haven’t seen transwomen mowing down people with their guns or cars. But the ideas have the same shit stink to them.
What’s funny is that it doesn’t sound like Serrano is lacking for sex. She’s not unhappy because no one at all is hollering at her. She’s unhappy because she wants the same steady stream of women she had before she transitioned. She’s unhappy because her sexy fun time slots are filled with more men than women partners. Kind of makes Incels seem sympathetic in comparison.
I can think of few things more Incel-like than a essay written by someone who condemns women for the crime of rejecting them sexually. The dehumanizing language is just the cherry on top.
I wouldn’t assume this. People who get action don’t spend a lot of time pitying themselves for failing to score with everyone they want. If bi women are attracted to Serrano, why does it matter if “cis dykes” aren’t? It would be like me getting bent out of shape that gay men aren’t into me, even though straight men love me just fine.
The crazy thing is that Serrano is saying she’s bi. So it’s not like women are her only options. Lesbians aren’t her life raft.
I appreciate the clarification, but you made a general statement about transmen not wanting their genitals played with and that statement was (and still is) confusing to me. Stating “Trans men aren’t really cool with people playing with their pussy” in a conversation about lesbians (not gay males or straight women) doesn’t make sense to me. Why would a transman get into a relationship with a lesbian if they aren’t into pussy play? At any rate, I fail to see the relevance to the topic at hand.
It seems like you are looking for an excuse to bash on some lesbians in a conversation where we are talking about them being bullied by transwomen. It’s making me uncomfortable, but I’m gonna try to give you the benefit of the doubt. Like a true ally, you are valiantly defending your friend, but can you at least understand why Yardley thinks your friend has some toxic, unwomanly views regarding sexuality? Can you understand how your friend’s views could be perceived as offensive to lesbians and women in general? Do you get how a bunch of transwomen with similar views could drive some lesbians to want to nope out of the queer community? Does this trouble you any? I can’t tell if you are arguing just to argue or whether you are listening to the points being raised.